Episode: 358 • Duration: 01:25:35
Continuing our series on the purported “bad movies” in cinematic history, we’re covering Razzie nominee Showgirls! We’ve been fans of Paul Verhoeven around here for a while, so to see his name lambasted for a movie that is not nearly as bad as everyone would have you believe is something we will not stand for! We reevaluate this film and give it the respect it’s due, while also documenting some of its flaws too.
We’re also drinking Lawson’s Finest Liquids’ Lager!
Approximate timeline
0:00-15:00 Intro
15:00-25:00 Beer talk
25:00-end Showgirls
Difficult Films continues throughout the month of May!
Hit that play button above to listen in.
Transcript – Difficult Films (2) SHOWGIRLS (auto-generated)
Click to expand full transcript
0:00
I didn’t fuck him.
Yeah, you did.
You fucked him and her are.
You following me around?
I didn’t fuck anybody.
I saw you, man.
Everybody got AIDS and shit, you know?
What is it that you think you do?
You fuck them without fucking them.
That’s what you do.
Well, it ain’t right.
0:17
You got too much talent for it to be right.
Get.
Out of here.
Bitch, I’m telling you the truth.
0:59
Hello everyone, welcome back to the Blood and Black Rum podcast.
Music.
I’m Ryan from closeweightation.com and I’m joined with my Co host Mark.
How’s it going?
Doing pretty well.
We’re knee deep in difficult films.
Again, as we talked about in the last episode, it’s difficult film series, a little bit different.
1:16
It’s not films that are necessarily stomach wrenching, but films that are hard to stomach what you might consider bad movies, if you will.
And this time we’re actually taking a road trip.
We’re going to the place where secrets live and die.
1:37
I’ve never been there myself, actually.
I’m sorry.
I have in an airport for a layover for 20 minutes played some slot machines $120.00 ’cause I’m a big gambler talking about the and and also, you know, we’ve been there once before as well on the show with Chevy Chase and the rest of the Griswold crew.
2:01
I got news for you guys.
That’s the film we’re doing again today.
Yeah, we didn’t give Vegas Vacation.
It’s proper too.
We feel like we need to, you know, it’s like our third episode probably would fit pretty well in this type of difficult film series too.
Yeah, the stroke.
2:17
It is kind of a difficult film, in fact, that it’s not a good, not a good movie.
In fact, that episode European, we crammed European and Vegas into one episode.
So that’s that’s how you can tell that’s like way back in our early days because right, that’s the only time we ever did that.
Generally don’t do that kind of thing.
2:33
But no, yes, we are going to Vegas.
We’re not going there for vacation, though.
We’re going there because we’re trying to be a star, trying to make it.
And not just any old star, not any Wayne Newton singing either.
We’re doing, we’re putting on full on dance numbers.
2:49
Oh, we’re doing Google.
Gotcha.
Yeah, no full on dance numbers.
The mistake by the Malik we’re talking about Paul Verhoeven’s I have to say it like that now because of Chatpile.
If you’ve heard there, if you’ve heard their live album where they performed and they, you know, the the lead singer Ray Gun Bush, he says it like that Paul Verhoeven makes him sound like Swedish, Swedish chef chef and not, I don’t know.
3:24
I love the pronunciation.
I love it like I I have to say it like that now anytime, any anytime.
Wouldn’t that be great If like on the set, like they’re like, sorry, Mr. Verhoeven and he’s like, no, it’s like this.
I love it.
3:40
Just everything comes to a screaming halt like no, no, no, it’s Paul V I love it.
And like I said, anytime I mention Paul Verhoeven, I have to say it like that now.
And it’s not a many, many times that I mentioned him in everyday conversation, but it’s more than once.
3:57
So, So yes, I, I always have to say it that way now.
But anyways, we’re talking about Showgirls from 1995 movie that is now over 30 years old.
Surprised if they’re getting old.
4:14
I remember, I remember my dad having, I think I might be misremembering.
I might be remembering some other thing that happened.
But I definitely remember my dad had the video store at this time when this movie came out, You know, and again, Showgirls coming out in 1995 is big news.
4:32
This was not.
So, you know, even if you weren’t really in a pop culture, you knew Showgirls was out.
My dad had a standee, I think I believe the showgirl standee.
So it’s kind of like in A Christmas Story where like, you know, I’m five years old at the video store and I’m playing with Elizabeth Berkeley’s leg, you know, that’s, you know, in that slip dress with the standee.
4:56
And it’s like, you know, in A Christmas Story when he’s, you know, feeling the the leg lamp and the mom’s like, Ralphie, get out of here, Ralphie, that’s shining sex in the window.
Yeah, that’s that’s that’s that’s what I remember about Showgirls is 1995 movie store is in full swing.
5:15
And we had a standee of the sexy poster artwork, which I’m surprised you’d think they would be like that has to go in like the back.
Like, you know, my dad didn’t have a back.
I don’t believe we didn’t have a lewd video area than I remember maybe we did and I did He’s probably be like he’d probably be like you talking about what’s this porn?
5:42
Yeah, I I got I don’t think so.
We did.
I don’t think we had the little dirty.
I don’t I don’t remember.
I don’t remember there being like a, you know, backed off area, you know little curtain pretty sure the other video story in town did so maybe that’s why maybe it might have lasted a little longer.
6:00
Yeah, you could get your rocks off at the other end.
This is a this is a classy joint.
All we have is a standee of the show girls.
Yes, no, I that’s pretty much all I remember, though, and I’ve actually never seen showgirls up until now, so that this is my first time actually seeing the movie.
6:17
How about yourself?
well-being the red blooded American man that I am and of Pulvier the yeah, no, I’ve seen it.
I’ve seen it like about twice, but they were both out 15 years ago when I was in college.
6:36
Again, like I was joking in the first episode.
A lot of the movies were doing this time around are the ones that were making like the circuit back in like their late 2000s, early 20 tens on like the like, oh, you know, angry Jed X, you know, reviewers of films and games and stuff.
6:52
So after seeing a couple like, you know, like, you know, that guy with the glasses like reviews of like, shit, like Showgirls is like, well, we’re going to check it out.
I remember watching, but yeah, that’s fucking stupid.
And like, not really thinking too much about it, like, you know, yeah, you know, So I’m coming in with fresh eyes.
7:14
And I will say I’m glad to have come into this film with fresh eyes because, man, you know, actually had a good sit and think about this one and, you know, totally you over us.
Like overcame my expectations of what I was expecting I was going to get this time because again, you know, I’m usually like for me, like if something doesn’t like, you know, like stick out as like something that’s, you know, really bad or really good, like it doesn’t really like maybe one or two things will stick in my head, but not much else.
7:52
And just but I’d like with Showgirls, even back then, I never really thought like it was so like the worst film I ever made.
But I was like, yeah, it’s a bad film.
You know, every great director has a shitty film.
Didn’t think too much about it.
Let you know kind of when you know when about my day, be like, yeah, you know what, You know what a fun fuck cluster fuck.
8:11
But I didn’t think about it.
So like, again, great to be what doing this now, because I think this is going to be a fun revisit of a film that’s been considered a a difficult watch.
But I think like, a lot of films, like viewing it in the 90s and then like viewing it now totally gives you a whole bunch of different perspectives on like, probably why in the 90s they were outraged and why now people probably, you know, are being like, this is a good fun film.
8:45
So yeah, I, like I said, I didn’t really have much of an influence either way on myself for have I hadn’t seen the movie before.
And so all I really knew is, you know, I know that Paul received a Razzie for direction on this movie, you know, and actually was kind of embracing it, right?
9:08
Because no one’s I, I think it’s a little bit different too, when you’re a director who’s had a number of, you know, good films under your belt, ones that people love.
And then you, you know, you have something like Showgirls and it’s, you know, if that’s your first debut and you, that happens, like maybe you wouldn’t show up for the Razzies.
9:26
But like, you know, as a, as a veteran director at that point, you know, you’d had probably like 3 or 4 movies under his belt by that time.
You know, I think you, you embrace it a little bit more and just kind of like laugh it off and say, all right, people that, you know, people didn’t love it.
9:44
Whatever, I’ll show up for the Razzie.
But other than that, you know, I and I’ve, you know, heard a lot of things about Showgirls.
There’s a lot of, there’s a lot of like baggage to Showgirls too, right?
Because you have the whole NC 17 rating and it’s like that’s, you know, as in 1990s, this certainly a death sentence for most movies to get an NC 17 rating.
10:06
That’s just, you know, now nowadays that really doesn’t mean a whole lot, right?
Because first of all, our ratings or even TVMA, right?
For, for, for television is a lot different than the 1990s MPA ratings.
10:22
We we accept a whole lot more.
We’re pushing boundaries a whole lot more.
And I’ll be honest with you, I’ll say it right now, I don’t think that Showgirls would have gotten an NC 17 rating today.
No, I think it probably is not.
Yeah, it’s, it’s not at the extremes of like the type of movies that you would expect to see, which again, is the funny part too, because again, the film has gotten NC 17, mainly probably due to, you know, there’s a couple of scenes, the gratuitous nudity.
10:52
But again, it’s just like funny.
Well, funny when you think about it, like especially now, like because people have had this discussion and there’s a really good documentary like about.
I can’t wait.
It’s like this movie’s like rated R or something.
I can’t remember, used to be on Netflix and what, I’ll have to look it up.
And like, but about like how like arbitrary and ridiculous the, you know, rating system is.
11:13
And like, like you had like even like Kevin Smith on there talking about like, well, from all rats.
I had to like take this one fucking scene out, you know, No, my might have been mallrats.
I can’t I can’t remember.
And it was a you know, about like jizz and hair and he’s like that’s got that would give me like give me an NC 17.
11:32
So we have to take it out.
But like just four years later, the fairly brothers fucking do.
Then something about marrying that gets passed and like, you know, so like how just again, like how arbitrary the whole system is.
And again, it’s just funny to think about.
Like you’re right, like is the film is just, you know, has a lot of nudity in it.
11:52
So it’s not like there’s violence in the film for the most part.
Yeah, like I said, I think it’s a couple key scenes that got it and it’s 17.
One that really stands out is the pool sex scene where she reaches down and basically grabs his Dick and sticks it in.
And I think like if they just had caught that, if that if that part of it had not been included, probably would have been fine, right, Like because it would have been implied.
12:14
But you have that like 1 little, that one little moment that is like somebody at the at the MPA was just a little bit too either aroused or disgusted or disgust aroused or whatever you want to call it.
12:30
And they were like, wow, I have, I have a hate boner.
Exactly that.
That’s too far.
Yeah, I think that was part of it.
I don’t even think it was so much that there’s like constant nuity because they, you know, as part of the movie.
And it’s like at at a certain point, I think that actually kind of blends into the background for most viewers.
12:47
Like you’re not walking or you’re not sitting here for two hours and 11 minutes with a constant raging bone.
Just took Viagra before and I think but again, but again, I I think that’s because again, now looking at it 30, you know, years out, I think that’s totally different because this is before, you know, you know, the Internet was around, but like, it’s not like the proliferation of you know, yeah, content in like pornography, you know, that, you know, really seep into the culture.
13:14
So I could see how just the fact like, you know, every time there’s a scene with like them dancing, it’s, you know, because it’s a topless act, like it’s just a horde of boobies around.
Well, you know, like the outrage.
So yeah, again, like I said, I think that’s like fun to like look at now because again, it’s like what, you know, yeah, I I think that it’s just a couple key scenes is definitely when it got an NC 17 rating today.
13:41
And I do think that that’s, you know, part part of that is that there’s this whole stigma around the movie of having an NC 17 rating it, you know, it, it definitely gave it some, you know, some views because people were drawn to it, you know, in the Eroticism of a film like that, that’s, you know, getting such a taboo rating.
14:02
But at the same time, in the scheme of things, I think there’s a lot of people too, who are just like, oh, I’m not going to watch that dirty garbage.
Yeah.
That’s, you know, that’s, that’s, that’s not, you know, that’s not something I want to subject myself to.
So I, I do think that it, it did hurt it in a little way too.
14:19
And it has like this sort of lasting stigma throughout, but also it’s the, it’s the only film to have a wide release as an NC 17 film.
So because again, that is the kiss of death for films, you know, not even still today, you know, so we’re desensitized.
14:40
But like if a film can’t get in R rating, it’s you know, it’s MC 17.
They’re sitting editing the shit out.
I think to get it, like I said, like getting it down because again, that MC17 and you’re not going to get a box office and, and to be honest with you too, nowadays, it’s actually a badge of honor that you want to get it edited down to an R.
15:01
And then later on when it comes out on Blu-ray, you want to include that unrated cut, right?
Because that’s something that you can market again, you can say, whoa, well, you saw it in theaters, but you really saw the, the rated cut.
We’ve got something extra special lined up for you on the Blu-ray that you should buy.
15:17
And then when you check it out, it’s at like 1 minute of extra footage and it’s, you know, not very minor and, and you’re just, and you’re ultimately disappointed because it’s just like what that was it.
Like, I don’t even know what they added here.
I can’t really tell.
I have to go to, you know, the compare movie.net to figure out what what was even different about this cut.
15:37
But that’s what I would say the documentary too, sorry to interrupt.
It’s this film is not yet rated.
Yes, yes, I do remember that that movie.
I don’t think I ever watched it, but I do remember it.
So all right, well, we’ve gone on long enough talking in the introduction here without actually touching or like doing, you know, a little edging or a little striptease ourselves here with the hold on.
15:58
That’s not what it’s called these days, Cole, by its proper name.
Gooning.
You’re we’re gooning.
We’ve been gooning, we’re goon maxing.
It’s or as I like to say every time when Ryan and I were playing battlefield and we’re hopping into a match, I always make sure to say goon mogging.
16:15
Just because it’s silly and stupid doesn’t mean anything.
But you know, just for the the Gen.
Z or so be like, oh, you loser.
Yeah, against people uppity.
Yeah, so, but we we’ve gone on long enough in the intro.
So let’s take a break here real quick and talk about.
16:32
And also we’ll say also.
So if you see somebody in the battlefield chest, say doing monkey, probably playing us.
Yeah, that’s true.
So, So what beer do we have on the show today?
What do you got?
Well, it was my turn to get the beer, so I went out, went to our local beverage centre, didn’t look around that much, just kind of went straight to the cooler, saw something that we haven’t had before and grabbed it and went on my Berryway.
16:59
We’ve had this brewery on a couple of times.
We’ve done our fast beer.
I know that based out of Vermont, don’t get a lot of Vermont beers.
It’s like them and what the hell, Long Trail.
17:18
So Lawson’s finest liquids and because I’m an old man and I’m set in my ways and looking for something just nice and easy to enjoy.
I got there 4 pack of tall boy lager and he’s going beer and I love the can because again, Ryan and I have said a billion times when we’re watching a movie and you see like a beer in the background, like and or like, you know, they’re like at the bar and it’s like we have I’ll take a beer.
17:48
This is what this looks like.
The can is beautiful.
It’s simple stand got red writing on it and it just says Lawson’s finest liquid, which is in gold.
So it which blends in with the tan so you can barely see it.
And then just like the logger, an easygoing beer.
18:06
So, you know, it’s a logger.
I think it’s an easy going beer and it’s 5%.
Yeah.
And I mean, I think too, that this beer is really similar to look to the founders that we had like a couple weeks ago.
Has that very, very same, you know, plain Jay, simple.
18:25
Yeah, simple cover.
And yeah, it’s, you know, they’re going for the same things here, very similar in style.
But I like it.
I like it a lot.
It’s a pretty damn good logger.
It’s easy.
It’s reading right into the marketing.
18:44
It is like a nice easy drink.
It’s got like a slight brightness to it, nice little sweetness to it, very nice body, goes down easy.
It’s refreshing 5% So it’s not even light on the lighter side like you expect like a four and a half 4% pleasantly surprised like it a lot wish it wasn’t just a four pack wish it wasn’t 1499 for a fucking 4 pack put it in a 12 pack or 15 pack.
19:16
But anyway, that point beside, I like it a lot.
It is good and like you said, it’s a shame that it comes like that, but it is it is good.
I like it quite bad yeah, I like it too.
I think that it is a really, you know, thug standard lager style and you know, it’s very reminiscent of pretty much any other type of lager.
19:37
Kind of gives me sort of like a Molsony Miller high lifestyle, kind of on the sweeter side.
You know, I think to this point it’s, you know, it’s a little bit sweeter than you you would expect for some other lager styles, but I think it’s really tasty, goes down smooth.
20:01
I would how would you compare it to that fight or that that founders that we had the other day?
Did you say this was Yeah, I, I I to be honest, I can’t really remember that period.
Also, I’d probably say batter.
And I think like, I think that’s one of the good and bad things about releasing lager styles like this is that when they’re so, you know, generically hit, hit right on the mark of what you expect from a lager may not be that memorable, but in the moment, it’s exactly what you’re looking for as a capital letter beer, you know, plain Jane right down the middle lager style.
20:39
So I think it hits the mark for what it’s looking to do, which is capitalize on the growing trend of simple, you know, customary beer.
And you know, I think that’s exactly what they’re trying to do.
So again, like you said, maybe I’m an expensive side for what you get, but a solid brew all around if that’s what you’re looking for.
21:05
Check it out if it’s available.
Yeah, I think Lawson’s is pretty, pretty far reaching at this point, so probably available in most places.
All right, let’s talk showgirls.
Sugar, sugar.
21:23
Let’s do this, girls.
Oh, wow, Look at these.
We got sidetracks.
I’m at the Genesee website.
We got to buy some new shirts.
They got.
They’re fucking delightful.
They had like a Ruby red coal like 70s style shirt.
Looks amazing, Very cool.
21:40
Yeah, here’s one that’s Genesee light one.
No one wants to drink that.
So showgirl starting off the movie really kicks into high gear right away right so we we are treated to meeting Elizabeth Berkeley’s character Nomi from.
22:01
What do you think about that name?
Nomi sounds made-up.
Should be Nomi.
Nomi from NOLA.
Nice little.
This is what happens when you you know, or is it round Zack Morris for long enough.
22:17
You have to hit the.
You got to carry a, you know, switch switchblade with you and, you know, hitchhike across the country because Zack Morris is trash.
Yes, exactly.
Yeah, Yeah.
And this is this is Elizabeth Berkeley’s sort of coming out party for breakout roll after Saved by the Bell.
22:41
You know, she had, you know, the probably the the episode that people remember most is when Jesse gets hooked, right?
Took down drugs.
Oh, I thought it was the let’s teeth sticking to be honest with you.
23:00
Fun fact, never watched a single episode of saved by the bell in my life because you know what it looked like it was for fucking nerds.
It’s pretty pretty crazy.
I was too busy watching my brother and me.
You know, something with little soul.
I’m surprised.
23:15
I I don’t know how you made it that long without, but I guess and and then, funnily enough to there was ATV movie of saved by the bell just before showgirls where they go to Vegas.
So it’s just there was a very, you know, very tie is I don’t know if it was on purpose or accidental, but it was a tie in there of, you know, yes, this is Jesse who has, you know, hit rock bottom is now, you know, going cross country to Las Vegas and, you know, becoming a show girl.
23:49
That’s that’s her new goal.
And so we when we meet her as know me in this movie, you know, there’s there’s an expectation and you know who she’s been as Jesse, but she I think she quickly, you know, dispels that.
But at the same time, know me as a character is extremely abrasive right at the beginning of the movie, like on purpose, but at the same time it’s almost ridiculously exaggerated.
24:16
And when I was watching the beginning, I was like, oh, OK, This is why the movie is bad, right?
Because like this is birth is Elizabeth Berkeley is so over the top in the the opening part of this movie that you almost think like that’s going to be the whole movie.
You know, two hours of just like adrenaline rushing, you know, Elizabeth Berkeley really bringing it.
24:38
And that’s not true.
You know, she definitely settles down a bit throughout the movie and, you know, delivers a a more slightly more nuanced performance.
But at the beginning of the movie, I could not help but just recognize like, how insanely aggressive and, you know, sort of like high octane it is at the beginning.
25:02
What a man.
It is a very 90s opening, though, with the whole hitchhiking and be like, where you going?
And then like, I want to go to Vegas and yeah, OK, I’ll take you there.
You know, there’s a lot of like in this movie, like little things that are like the land opportunity.
25:19
Well, I was just going to say it’s just funny because it ends up being like, man, like these are films, the things that happened in 90s films, like all the fucking time.
And I don’t know why, but they were there.
Yeah, yeah.
It’s it’s similar in the sense that like this, this could be and even hints at later on in at the end of the movie, but it could also be very easily in a different movie about trying to make it in show business, right?
25:43
Like an actual Hollywood.
And the movie kind of hints at that at the end of the movie that is like that’s where it’s going to again.
But you know, it, it, it has a lot of similarities to this, this idea at the time, specifically in the 90s and early 2000s of trying to make it of the difficulty in doing so in a show business world.
26:08
There’s a lot of movies like this of the time.
And you’re right, Showgirls has all of that, like right at the beginning of the movie, just like laid out for you.
Here’s the the crux of what’s going to happen.
So when we meet her, like we don’t really know much about Nomi.
26:24
And sort of the idea is that she’s kind of just hitchhiking and making she’s, she’s gotten to Vegas.
She wants to be a dancer.
And that’s kind of where we leave her.
And she she’s she’s making her way into the world and kind of happens upon another woman who helps her out and gives her a room to stay in to help her on her way to her career.
26:45
What do you think about like this whole opening sequence of getting Nomi to Las Vegas and and her start up as the as a dancer in like a CD, little underground dance hall CD?
It’s a it’s called the Cheetah and it’s a wonderful gentleman’s club.
27:06
OK.
So it’s true.
It’s, that’s why you use the term gentleman to, to denote that it’s actually in quite a nice place.
Yeah.
It’s nice to see people in business suits in there, you know, Listen.
Yeah.
Like foreign men, dignitaries there in business suits.
And yeah, it’s also not just that it’s a vaudeville show too.
27:22
It’s, you know, not, and not just vaudeville, but also it’s, you know, burlesque.
You will see a variety of performances, Yes, including a woman who has basically a foghorn attached to her, her bosoms so that every time she drops her like that’s oh, she’s the best.
27:39
Like she like Henry.
Her name is Henry had a bosom and it’s great because like I was thinking like man, that could be Jon Penet playing her and that’d be, you know, hilarious.
It’s not Jon Penet.
Rest in peace, John.
But like, it’s so like, I’m fine with the setup.
27:59
She hitchhikes there.
The guy she goes with, he’s like, oh, I’m not going to do anything.
Why are you still?
You hate people.
She’s like, I fucking hate Garth Brooks.
Change the song.
Because we’re now in Jackson.
In the 90s, Garth Brooks was widely lambasted.
28:16
Yeah, that’s why one of our friends has never seen this movie because he’s a big Garth Brooks fan, and he wouldn’t stand in his household.
We’re in Alan Jackson and we’re in Travis family here.
But anyway, so they go get to Vegas and like she’s having the time of her life at the casino.
28:33
The guys like, well, you know, my uncle works here.
We’ll see give you a job and get you set up.
And then he takes off and with her shit after he gave her $10 to go to the slot machines and have a fun time, you know, and she he takes the suitcase.
28:48
We don’t know what the hell is in her suitcase, which is just probably all her possessions, but takes her big ass suitcase and she said gays.
And then she’s got to go and throw herself into the road almost because then she’s sitting there, she’s like pounding on the car next door.
29:03
That’s when Molly walks up and say, the fuck are you doing?
That’s my car is like, you bitch fuck up.
I’m going to kill myself and like throw like, you know, throws herself into traffic and Molly saves her.
And that’s exactly what I’m talking about is like this.
This very high energy, sort of over the top exaggerated performance that she’s giving off here is very, you know, it, it almost hints at like, oh, OK, this is going to be like way too extravagant.
29:33
And, you know, she’s going to be just giving off too many vibes here.
But which is something which is something I do remember again, because that was like one of the big criticism.
I do remember, like watching the film and being like, yeah, no, like this is kind of insufferable.
29:49
But now watching it, it’s like, again, it’s not just her.
The whole cast is dialed up to fucking 14.
So it’s clearly you’re home and telling them you got to fucking, you know, bring it up on like what you’re doing.
So I mean, I agree.
30:05
I I think that it’s sort of some of that some of some of this idea is intentional, right?
Like, so I think that as a whole, that is how Nomi is supposed to be, regardless of the fact of like you think Elizabeth Berkeley’s going a little too above, you know, and an extra.
30:25
I think that the the character itself is written to be sort of this dialed up character who it is sort of this like manic person who in again, to part of that is the her her past, right?
Her past is sort of something that continually haunts her and is kept from the audience throughout the movie, you know, on purpose.
30:47
We don’t really know that much about her.
We just know that she’s coming from somewhere.
And anytime somebody asks her about her past, she gets like all snippety and extremely reticent to say anything about it and sort of like walks away.
And so, you know, oh, there’s something going on there, you know, but you don’t really know what was she a was she a serial killer hitchhiker that just like, you know, is going in cross country murdering people?
31:09
She comes across like, we don’t know.
We don’t know.
It’s all one of one of Manson’s new recruits.
Exactly.
It’s all left in the open.
So so I think that there’s to a certain extent, there’s a reason why she is so manic.
And I I think people maybe maybe we’re we’re expecting something different from Elizabeth Berkeley as a, you know, knowing from her past is Jesse from Saved by the Bell and, you know, potentially expecting some sort of Oscar winning performance from, you know, a starlet.
31:42
And I don’t think that that’s this kind of movie.
You know, this is not an Oscar bait type of movie.
Paul, could you imagine?
You know, yeah, exactly.
It’s it’s this is sweet 1995.
32:00
Yeah.
I’m not going to say this is more akin to something like Magic Mike that we got, you know, early on.
It’s definitely not Coyote Ugly either.
But it’s somewhere in between of a, you know, a semi serious drama, erotic drama and, you know, a knowingly pulpy movie of, you know, Paul Beurhoven trying to blend a a view of this world that matches his cynical viewpoints in a lot of ways and showcasing like this very cynical underbelly of the like any kind of showmanship, you know, whether it be cinema dancing, But also but also too though, I mean, like, yeah, it’s a good set.
32:48
It’s looking at now with fresh, like I said, fresh eyes.
It’s a good satire because again, on the it’s not doing Hollywood.
It’s going a step below like you’re a showgirl in Vegas.
That’s what you want to be.
33:04
And like as we see, like we see her start as like she’s working at this as a stripper.
And then you see like the dancing and it’s a topless dance show.
And we’ll get more into like the dynamics of that.
But again, like how it’s all the same bullshit, you know, would just like how society kind of like, you know, divvies up and says like, you know, what’s art and what’s, you know, smart.
33:33
You know, I think especially having her, you know, because she isn’t, you know, starts off as a stripper when she gets there.
I think that’s a, like, a good way to make that comparison because I don’t think that would work nearly as well if you did like, Hollywood, like, because again, Vegas, especially in this time, you know, everyone’s like, it’s a sleazy, you know, hell hole.
33:57
And that’s why every film in the 90s between, you know, this and Leprechaun goes to Vegas and, you know, Vegas Vacation and, you know, I blew up the baby.
Yeah.
It’s like, good, you know, like, this is what Vegas is.
34:13
So I think it’s a good, you know, comparison.
Yeah.
It works really well.
I don’t know if the over the topness was intentional at times, but I still think it does end up working, you know, really well for the dynamics of the film.
34:33
Yeah.
And I think I think in some ways it is right.
I I think that I think in some ways the film recognizes that this movie needs to be over the top a little bit.
It needs to showcase this chaotic lifestyle that these people are living and like you said, draw the parallels between like, you know, people think there’s it’s high culture to be at.
34:55
What is it called?
Like the Stardust, right?
The the casino hotel theatre that Crystal is ultimately performing in and the big star showcase names everywhere on billboards and things.
You know, she’s ultimately still dancing topless, right?
35:13
And and so the film, and it certainly draws because attention to the fact that like all of the cattiness that you see at the strip club between those women and and potentially even maybe more so at the Stardust, because at least they had their all had their backs.
35:30
Like even even the, you know, the people at the the Cheetah are her sleazy boss who’s like, next time you’re giving me a blowjob, you know, hold, hold on, hold on.
How dare you call Robert Dobby sleazy?
Yeah, even even that guy comes back to see her later on as she’s, you know, making her debut at the Stardust as an actual showgirl and is like, you know what, good job, Good job.
35:56
You know, like, you did it.
And so, like, they even had her back to a certain extent.
And then, you know, you have this other element of all of the showgirls that we see are always at each other’s throats.
They really, there’s, there’s no like camaraderie there.
36:11
They work together, but it’s always like, well, I will throw you under the bus if I can be Crystal’s backup dancer.
And and I think that that’s sort of the idea behind what Verhoeven is doing here in the chaos that he’s ensuing and why everything is so over the top is because, like there is a there’s an underlying chaos to being a showgirl.
36:32
And it’s not all guts and glory of, you know, making it to the top because the top sucks.
As you know, Gina Gershon’s character Crystal is completely trying to hint at in this movie.
Like, I’m not, it’s not like super happy.
Like everybody love.
Everybody loves everything.
36:49
It’s just, it’s just the cocaine.
Yeah, Yeah.
It’s like it’s just the cocaine, my little ring that I snort the finest cocaine in in Las Vegas.
So what I mean it’s it is like I think again as a satire and like as a parallel to show like 1.
37:09
‘S considered this.
High art and like, oh, you go to the hotel, ’cause you this hotel because they have such a wonderful performance going on and it’s just them skipping around like with their tits flopping out and like goth and motor all these like, you know, like like woo bravo and then like oh, you’re nothing but a who or a because you work down at the Cheetah and show your tits guys, you know.
37:35
I I I think it like.
Yeah, I think that, you know, I think that works really well because I think again.
Crystal points.
Out really.
Well, like, either way, like what?
It doesn’t matter which one you do, you’re still a whore ’cause you’re pouring yourself out, whether it be through the, you know, the artsy fartsy way or, you know, the we’re yeah, we know what we’re doing at the strip club.
38:01
It’s, you know, you’re still whoring your body out for money.
It’s, you know, it’s.
I think it’s, you know, fine point.
I think it’s a point that would would have totally fallen on deaf ears in 1995, you know, because I don’t think people would have been able to be like, well, she’s getting paid $500 to do shake her ass on that guy’s, you know, we, we and she does that, though this time on stage under candlelight.
38:31
So it’s, yeah, there’s an answer.
And I think that that’s certainly one of the reasons why Showgirls may not have done as well as it did be as well as, you know, we’re pointing out now because I think that a lot of people were finding it just like this sort of sleazy, full of nudity movies, just like a parade of nudity, like, and as, as though that’s just a sort of like, you know, the, the eye of the, the selling point.
39:00
Yeah.
Yeah.
It’s, it’s just trying to show naked women all throughout the movie.
And that’s just clearly not the point.
Like, like I said at the beginning, the, the, the nudity that is actually shown becomes.
And I think this is truly on purpose from Rehoben.
39:18
It almost becomes background static, right?
Like you, you to at a certain point over 2 hours, you really start to just not even notice that like these people are naked at all.
Like it’s just this sort of part of the overall artistry of the movie that you don’t, you just there’s naked people on screen and like you’re doing dancing and it’s just part of the art.
39:41
Do you think that’s like I was saying so do you think that’s him saying anything?
Because again, it like I, I totally agree, Like I like I didn’t like sit and find like any of this film to be like titillating because again, where if you’re seeing these people like as a stripper or as like, you know, show girl.
40:02
Constantly behind the scenes.
Everyone’s running around like, again, if you feel like you’re on like, you know, part of the team and it’s like, yeah, you’re over there part of the team, you’re throwing like like I’m the caddy guy.
That’s like no spin.
40:20
No, like it’s not shot to be like it’s like I think about it like and I think there’s a point to like desensitize you too, because it kind of makes it like after a while he’s like this doesn’t mean anything.
Like what’s the taboo about it?
Because he did it in Starship Troopers with like, you know, the shower scene there were with the men and the women all, you know, running around doing grab ass in the shower to show like, you know, because again, they’re you know, that fascist utopia.
40:49
They’re equals and beautiful people.
But like, this is just normal, you know?
And so I think I would certainly agree, I definitely think that there is an intentional desensitization to this for the first part of the movie, you know, especially when she’s at the strip club, There is an intentional Eroticism to the film, right?
41:10
Like, that is her job.
That is what she’s doing.
And the idea, too, is to say, look, this is her job as an erotic dancer.
It is not her job to sit there and have you, you know, take your Dick out and you know, like, because they, they mentioned that multiple times, like they come on you, they go on, you know, this is extra tip, you know, but well, they they come on you to get out.
41:32
But if it’s a nice tip and I mean, right.
Exactly.
And the idea I think there is to showcase that Eroticism, as you know, again, it is a job.
It is her job.
It is certainly something that she does.
And the desensitization comes over time, whereas it morphs from this Eroticism of the strip club to the artistry of the dance hall or, or of a cabaret show.
41:56
And you’re meant to see like, you know, it’s not that different.
At the end of the day, they’re both jobs.
They, you know, they’re getting paid.
And again, you’re getting desensitized to the fact that like, they’re, they’re topless as just part of the job.
And I do think that that’s intentional.
42:12
It’s not like, like you said, it’s not intended to be titillating all of the time, although, yes, it is in a way.
There’s a neuroticism to the film in and of itself that kind of showcases Elizabeth Berkeley in that scenario and and sort of satirically shows, you know, if you’re willing to go the distance, this is how you get ahead.
42:32
And it’s growing grimy and gross.
And you can understand too, from a perspective of let’s think about movie making and who are producing movies around this time period.
There’s probably a number of people who were not super happy with Showgirls being a satirical discussion about what happens behind the scenes of any kind of, you know, art.
42:55
And but again, like it like media, Harvey Weinstein aside, it like it, it, it works because again, like, from like being a stripper, that’s what you expect.
Like, listen, you’re a stripper, honey.
If a guy’s like, gives you an extra $200 to blow his load on you, you take that money and you did a good job, right.
43:18
But we see the same thing happens when she’s so girl.
Yep.
Oh, you want to make $1000?
Yeah.
Just go to this boat exhibit.
By the way, this guy’s from Bangkok.
He wants to have, we’re going to go do karaoke after and have some fun.
You want to go have fun, You know, and you, you can’t get away from it.
43:36
And there’s no, there’s no winning for the, for for you.
You you’ve made it to the top and you still have to put up with all this bullshit.
And you still, you don’t you didn’t get anywhere.
Really.
Like, you have fame.
The misogynism still exists, yes.
And that’s kind of where I get into that idea of like this is a satirical Verhoeven movie at heart.
43:54
It has the cynicism of what you would expect.
And I think a lot of people kind of miss that.
You know, people saw RoboCop and there was very pointed commentary within stuff like his commercials, right?
Like it was very clear from the commercials and some of the the things that he was parodying.
44:11
There was a satirical biting criticism of what was going on in that movie.
With that, Showgirls presents itself a little bit more streamlined and a little bit more just like an overall narrative.
And it doesn’t really necessarily cut away with all of those sort of obvious satirical remarks.
44:32
And so it is, if you’re not, you’re not really not looking for, it is easy to watch Showgirls and just take it for face value of what we’re hoping is presenting to you in terms of like this.
You just sort of it, it definitely comes across as opaque if you’re like a first time watcher and you don’t really know what to expect.
44:50
And I guess that’s why I appreciate kind of coming in and watching this with fresh eyes because it’s like.
I said one of.
The things that sticks stuck out for a lot of people.
And me too is like the one big walk away is like, oh, Elizabeth Berkeley can’t fucking act for shit.
45:07
But again, when you watch it and you see like everyone, everyone is like, you know, poor Kyle McLaughlin, like everyone is just this, you know, overacting, you know, person in personality.
45:25
You get to like, like, oh, it’s not just her.
They’re obviously all being directed to, you know, lean into that.
So what do you think about?
You mentioned Kyle McLaughlin for a second.
What do you think about?
What do you think about Kyle McLaughlin in this movie?
45:40
You know, the last one that we we covered him in, you know, he was a completely different type of character, right.
And what are you, what are you doing, man?
He was in David Lynch.
Yeah.
Blue Valley.
Blue Valley.
45:56
Yeah.
And he was a completely different sort of like, you know, person and character, right, Like he was he was almost being seduced into a very different type of person.
And maybe he became the the the, you know, the zakif of showgirls after blue valve.
46:14
I mean, for me, nothing will ever top Flintstones for OK, which also too second film, Viva Rock Vegas.
I mean, again, the 90’s, the 90s just couldn’t help themselves.
I.
46:31
Think he again.
He’s good.
That haircut, Oh my God, As we were talking about, well, as I was talking about with my little, you know, fashion and trend discussion, this film was so perfectly 1994 and 95.
46:49
That sense of style in fashion literally had a shelf like a year and a half before it died to death.
It went Oasis 96 and all that Radiohead all came around.
All those looks died like you like the stone washed jeans that like in the opening that Elizabeth Berkeley is wearing, like like the haircuts, the style, like it’s so had it’s time.
47:13
Like when you look at like media from the time, like as I was telling you, like early 90s like style and stuff lasted because of like, you know, The Fresh Prince for like a while with the pastels and like that look.
But like overall like that mid 90s, like you watch Hocus Pocus.
47:31
You can tell that lasted from like October 94 to like N95 before like 96 game and said we’re taking this shit and fucking off with that.
So like, I appreciate the film for that cause again, his haircut.
Oh my wrong.
47:49
Horrible.
Courtney Cox has no reason to bitch.
Sort of like the Spider Man 3.
Yeah, the McGuire sort of emo cut.
I’m also really upset because again, film has gratuitous nudity.
No cock.
48:06
No, it has no, no, we get to see his gigantic Bush in his man ass, but no cock.
So I mean, what the hell, It’s true.
It’s not there’s and it’s not just it’s not just boobs like a lot of these chicks you get to see, you know, the full vagina vulva and all.
48:25
So you know, it’s not not super common.
So that’s probably another NC 17 reason.
They were like, I know the landing strip there.
You can’t show you can’t show that, which I always sound funny too, because again, it’s like, why?
Like even like a chick like chicks are running around with their pussies and it’s OK.
48:42
But if a guy’s like Dick is like, whoa, kids can’t see that.
They might get confused too much, too much.
Yeah, maybe he he’s fine.
But like you said, everyone is such a over at the top.
You know, that’s me in like, it’s like, it’s fine.
48:59
I think he does a fine job.
What I we didn’t we talked about Elizabeth Berkeley a little bit, but I did want to say I think the athleticism that she displays in this movie is excellent.
It she is, you know, there is a fieriness and a you know, like we we were talking about exaggerated or exaggeration from her acting, but her athleticism, the dancing, the the, you know, the effort that she puts in is extremely noticeable.
49:27
And I think that that’s not, you know, like, again, this this is a movie that for all of its nudity and all of its Eroticism, puts a lot of effort into just showing choreography too, right?
Like it it it spends a lot of time showing actual like the burlesque numbers and, you know, performances, whether it be stripteases or the regular, you know, whatever that whatever the dance thing goddesses, which is for me, I couldn’t understand the storyline and Goddess.
49:54
I don’t know what the hell it was trying to do there with the well, I was going to say it’s like in 2001, the space odyssey starts at like the birth of man just to God bike riders riding around topless.
No, you’re right, that was doing, but you’re right.
50:10
But the thing I I find funny, and I don’t know if you’re going to agree or not.
Do you think though, like she does put a lot of effort and you know, good.
But when James is like, you can’t dance for shit.
Like you got a lot of passion, you got a lot of fire, but you can’t like, you know, there’s no skill to it.
50:29
And she’s like, fuck you and leaves.
I agree with that.
And I don’t know if that’s intentional or not because when she’s dancing, like compared to others, like, yeah, there’s a passion, there’s a fire.
But the coronation, like, you know, it doesn’t seem like anything that would make somebody go check that girl out, right.
50:50
Like, like she she was like, noticeably.
Yeah.
Yeah, I do think that that is probably intentional too, because I, I do think it’s almost showcasing like, look, she built herself from the ground up here just going to Vegas.
She had a an idea and a dream and she did it.
And I think like, that’s at the end of the film when she’s, you know, when the, you know, there’s a sort of circular, she gets in the same truck as the guy that picked her up at the beginning.
51:13
And there’s sort of like this, you know, obviously unrealistic, circuitous method of getting back to the point.
And yes, Sir, did you win?
Which he asks, Sir, in the beginning of the day, do you think you’re going to win?
And she’s like, yeah.
And then she says, yes, I did win.
I do think that’s intentional of, like, shit saying like, look, she wasn’t really a great dancer when she started.
51:32
And I do agree.
I think you see at the beginning, she’s sort of gazelle like, like when, when she’s on the dance floor, like dancing with Molly, like, yeah, like, like it looks like Parappa the Rapper.
Like, yeah, you know, it’s just like, like Molly’s like the one that’s like, you know, the most, you know, rhythmic and like, I, I feel bad for Molly.
51:57
God, she gets fucked in this.
Yeah, but she doesn’t want that lifestyle either.
She.
She doesn’t care about that lifestyle so much.
And even when she gets the taste of it with Raymond Carver or whatever his name is, this anterious fucking dude who’s only mentioned in.
They have a poster.
52:12
Yeah, they have a poster of them in their apartment and everything.
And he’s sort of like on the tangent of the film until the very end when he comes in and, you know, love that you call their trailer part apparently.
But no, I just find it funny because again, like every time until like by the end, like it’s like her dancing is fine, but like is see like especially at first like.
52:40
I don’t know if it’s intentional.
Or not that she’s supposed to look like shit, you know, the dogs like it just, like, looks really like trying too hard to do the dances.
I’m going to be a showgirl.
Yeah.
It’s like the Vogue sort of.
52:56
Yeah.
Over the top dancing.
I do think it’s intention.
I do you know.
Giving credit to that.
I think that it was sort of the way to show she built herself and she she figured it out and she did you.
I’m glad you mentioned Jimmy too, because Jimmy is such a unnecessary character in my opinion to this movie.
53:15
I because we talked a lot about what we did like about the movie.
I I would like to offer a couple things that I found kind of weird or, you know, very poorly fleshed out.
I think Jimmy is one of those characters.
He doesn’t really make sense as a character too much.
The film kind of forgets about him for a long stretches of time and just comes back when it seems worthwhile to check in with him as to him being sort of like this.
53:41
I love that you’re on like a basis with the more you were calling him.
Not James, you’re calling him.
Yeah.
No, I.
I.
Performed with him a couple times and one of his when he when he wrote when he wrote a song for me.
So we’re we’re on the first name he had sex with.
54:00
Hillary Clinton.
I love that he has that whole age spiel to know me, right?
Like, what are you doing out here?
Are you everybody’s got AIDS?
And then what is he doing?
Just having sex with any dancer that he finds, you know, around the area and then getting her.
54:19
You didn’t even sell that, right?
It’s one of the best lines in the whole film.
And I, you know, got my phone here because I sent it to you and I time stamped it because this is what are the things that I do remember specifically as being a big talking about point, talking about the shitty acting.
54:39
Is that 3350 James and I quote?
Man, everybody got AIDS and shit.
A very you.
Know they should put that on a after school special, right?
So just tell.
54:56
That should be.
This That alone should get this film into the Library of Congress.
That’s right.
It’s it’s well spoken.
He’s right.
Well stated, well spoken.
At least he was being you know what, if you really want to, If he really wanted to, you know, get that Elizabeth Berkeley put on and he ain’t going to be sitting.
55:18
Let him really got that aid and shit, He’d be like, I don’t care.
I find it refreshing how it’s honest He is at times because Elizabeth Berkeley later on, she’s like he confronts her one more time.
This is like after she’s already found it, like they’ve they’ve had that little striptease session and you know, then she finds out he’s sleeping with the, you know, the woman who has that ridiculous Hillary Clinton Bob haircut and stuff.
55:42
And then he comes back and he’s like, listen, listen, I got a problem with pussy.
I always have, I always will.
And he’s just very, very frank about it.
And just, you know, you got to you got to give it to the man.
To be so honest.
I just literally the thing that like makes me say he’s worth having in the film is when he first like is running into her and she’s he’s like he bails her out of out of jail after, you know, she knees him in the balls because he says she can’t dance for shit.
56:16
And then he knees, she gets knees him in the balls and be like I was like, he’s like that bitch.
And the fight breaks out and she goes to the drum tank for the night.
But after she gets bailed out, he bails her out and he’s like I.
56:32
Just want a cup of.
Coffee.
I just want to go get a cup of coffee with you get a cup of coffee.
And as Molly’s coming to pick her up, she she goes, hey, you got 1/4 and she goes, yeah, grabs it and he throws it.
She throws it at and he’s like, go get yourself a cup of coffee and absolutely garlic drive off.
And she’s like sucking on a ring pop too.
56:50
And she’s doing it because they’re in the car while it’s like, who’s saying it’s like, oh, just a man who bailed me out?
And she’s like, what?
And she’s like sucking like, I’ll tell you later, I’m sucking on a ring pop.
Yeah.
It’s like the most 90s thing ever.
Like, hey, we we do this.
57:05
You get bailed out of the drum tank.
I got a ring pop.
I don’t know where’d you get the ring pop, but I do.
I do love that.
It’s like a great line like you would hear in Law and Order or something like take this yourself a cup of coffee.
Bam, bam, bam, Dick woof.
Yeah, I did.
57:22
I the the ring pocket thing is something I noticed here.
I was like, wow, that’s very random.
But and I don’t even know where she got it from.
See the 10 say the 1080P is what does Yeah, modern miracles now, because it’s probably probably like when I was watching it the first time, I probably wouldn’t have noticed that because probably in like 360P or 240P on like, you know, you’re just yeah.
57:44
But.
So, yeah, but what I was saying is I don’t really get Jimmy as a character or James.
I don’t really get why he’s here.
I don’t really think he adds much to the story.
I don’t know if you felt the same, but I just feel like besides, like what you said, where you pointed out a couple of really funny things about Jimmy specifically, I, I don’t really think he adds a whole lot to the overall storyline.
58:06
I think the same is true.
I, I, I was finding myself getting a little bit annoyed at the, the amount of dance sequences that we actually get.
And it makes sense in a way because this movie was written by Joe Esterhasse, who also wrote Flashdance in 1983.
58:26
And so there is sort of like this recurring dance motif throughout the movie.
But at the same time, I did find that I I think that they go on a little too long.
Like we don’t need to see the lengthy, you know, Dom bike sequence in the one part where right before Crystal gets her leg broken, you know, we don’t need to see all of that to make it.
58:52
Sell this idea.
About dance, it’s my opinion again, you know, I don’t know, maybe some other people are watching Sugars and like, I really like the dance numbers.
Like, maybe it adds a nice change of pace to this story about naked women.
You know, you wait.
59:08
You wait until we watch.
We’re doing musical months, and we’re doing, like, you know, gangs and not kings.
New York.
The hell is called Nathalie Wooden.
59:23
Whatever the hell.
Sharks, Jets.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, I think it’s fine because I, I, I enjoyed them because they’re actually done really well.
Sure.
59:39
The production, like, if there’s one thing that you can’t say, even if you dislike this film, Paul Verhoeven’s production on this film is damn good.
Everything looks good.
Everything is shot great, you know, and I think the spectacle of the shows, especially as we watch her, you know, rise through the ranks as a showgirl.
1:00:01
So we we watch her fumbling around, fucking around to this part, that part, like, I think it works because it’s you get to see just like the grandiosity of it and also how fucking stupid it is.
Because again, when you compare it to what she was doing and how, you know, the big sin of this film that really grinds, you know, Elizabeth Berkeley’s character Gears and she constantly gets called a whore and she’s like, I like Frank Reynolds, I’m not a whore.
1:00:33
And, you know, but just by watching these like shine ass, you know, masturbatory shows that they’re putting on again.
And like, I think it definitely leans well because into because as I was saying, you know, saying earlier you got the striptease and the, you know, the stripper and then this and like.
1:00:59
You tell me.
How one of these are in the other is, you know, obscene.
So I think compiling on to that instead of just like hanging like one big scene or two, I think the Congress, the fact like when she gets there, you get like 5 different like acts.
1:01:17
Adds to the effects.
In that you should feel from the satire.
Sure, sure.
You know, I could see it.
I I, I do.
I did find it was just a little long winded, but I can I can definitely see the appeal and and showing and like you said, the the actual production values on the movie are quite good.
1:01:38
So you don’t have that, you know, like it’s they’re really looking like Las Vegas shows.
And we talked about this a little bit off air, but do you feel like people are going to see these types of Vegas shows anymore?
1:01:54
You know, it’s I don’t know if they even exist anymore because it’s like Céline Dion and like you see now, now it’s like all these shows.
That’s The funny thing too, when, you know, Crystal gets hurt and they’re like, what if we hired Paula Abdul?
1:02:12
Janet Jackson was like, motherfucker, you think Janet Jackson is going to be running around tits out like that or Paula Abdul?
Like, are you out of your fucking mind?
And the owner of the show’s like, no, we can’t close down.
We’ve never closed down.
1:02:28
We can’t afford those salaries either.
And again, it’s like, yeah, that’s what like the seediness.
It’s like, it’s not Hollywood.
It’s not it’s Vegas.
It’s got that you know, you know, that griminess feel to it.
You know, casino just came out the same time, you know, so it’s when Vegas still had that, you know, CD panache still to it that made it feel like when you’re going there, like, oh, you know, it’s not just gambling, but it’s neon signs and the drugs and the women.
1:02:59
So I just.
Found that that you know.
It’d be really funny.
Again, you don’t know, I haven’t been to like you haven’t been to Vegas.
I wasn’t even laid over there.
But I feel like again, I don’t the whole like paying $2050, whatever the fuck it would cost, you know, to sit down under a, you know, shitty got, you know, Goodfellas light and eating like a cheap London broil and cream spinach.
1:03:34
Watch this shit would be like wow what?
AI had the best.
Vacation ever, you know, like, you know, it’s very true.
Yeah.
I just don’t know who is who’s going to see stuff like that.
But you know, to each their own, you know, I don’t know, maybe they are maybe they are still doing this stuff in Vegas.
1:03:53
Vegas is certainly not what it once was either.
It’s, you know, it’s not as thriving as it used to be.
So all right, moving on.
Let’s talk about let’s talk about the the the rivalry between Crystal, Gina Gershon’s character and Elizabeth Berkeley.
1:04:11
Or is it romance?
Because the film sort of trades on and off there.
And I want to know what you think about that.
I think it’s fine.
You like that, you know, like you like that like lesbianism angle that they’re going for there.
1:04:29
Oh yeah, a big, you’re not a fan.
Big lesbian fan, big lesbian fan, Not a big fan of the game, but big lesbian.
Well, I mean.
You know I like.
Props, you know, props to the film, the you know, storyline.
1:04:44
I think that’s, you know, a fun part.
And again too, and I think it works well because 1.
Gene Gershon is like the best part of this film.
She does such a great job.
She is wholly reveling in it.
And so just.
Smart and funny.
1:05:01
And like the outfits, when she’s like showing like, you know, Elizabeth Berkeley how to dance in the Cowboys like suit she’s wearing, it’s like fucking great.
Like it’s just like, you know?
But I I like.
1:05:16
It and I think it’s again.
For the time would be.
Like wow, what a.
She’s with a guy from.
Twin Peaks, but she wants to fuck that chick.
Like what’s going on?
You know it’s an open.
1:05:33
Couple, you know, and she’s bi.
I think it’s cool.
Like I, I think you can see both ways.
Like in some ways it almost seems, you know, like they wanted to just shoehorn that in to give more of a reason why to make to make it more titillating.
1:05:51
Yeah.
Yeah.
Exactly where where as like, because the film really does trade on and off and it sort of has this like almost will they won’t they of like, do they actually even like each other or, you know, is she doing this on purpose to like really ruin Nomi’s life or is she does she really like her or is she jealous or like.
1:06:10
And then there’s a lot of almost you.
You really don’t know Crystal that well as a character.
And the film kind of takes little interludes to try to get you to know her and also try to get know me to know her.
But they keep pissing each other off.
And so there’s this, you know, there’s this, like, will they won’t they even like each other?
1:06:29
And then towards the end, you get that, you know, that’s like a smoochy Rooski, like high school, you know, heading and panting and bitching.
Yeah.
But I think it does works.
Again, the chemistry between the two I think works really well and I think is a lot more relatable and like.
1:06:50
Tangential and you can see.
The compared to, you know, Elizabeth Berkeley, like I like Kyle McLaughlin, like that comes across as, you know, really just stuff like at first it could be, can he do it?
Is she doing it because like she’s just trying to fuck with her.
1:07:06
But like, you know, and just like it doesn’t work as well because the chemistry outside of them, you know, fucking in the water in the pool isn’t really like super there, I think.
Yeah, no, I think it’s fine.
And you know, props for the film for being progressive in that way because I, because I, I think too.
1:07:30
The film doesn’t say it.
Or anything, but I think too that like, she’s definitely bi because there’s so many times like she just looks at like Molly and wants to kiss her.
Yeah.
And like, you know, and it’s like I’m like, just like soldiers just do it, you know, you’re fine.
Embrace your emotions.
1:07:45
Just do it, you know, But even like, that’s that first meeting with her with.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
To, like, give her a big old kiss.
And then so it’s a tender hug and stuff.
They just met.
But like, there’s a chemistry there that’s more than just like a friendship.
The same thing is true, too, when she first meets Crystal and she’s like, sort of leering at her in the mirror, like in a very odd sort of, all right, you know, let me grab a towel sort of way.
1:08:11
You know, she feels uncomfortable.
And I do think, you know, I think to a certain extent that may actually have lost some of it’s, it’s focused throughout the movie, you know, because the film does do a lot like for a 2 hour movie, it does move very briskly through many different elements of the movie.
1:08:33
And I think that it does, it does lose a little bit of focus on the fact that, you know, that Elizabeth Berkeley’s character may have some, you know, by tendencies and, and may, you know, be more interested in women at this point in her life.
You know, and who could blame her, right?
1:08:49
She like, she’s giving stripteases to grody guys.
And, you know, she at the end, towards the end of the movie, you know, Molly’s raped brutally by, you know, three men.
And so like, of course, at the end of the movie, she’s probably sworn off men for life.
She’s like, you know, they’re all good for nothings.
1:09:05
So what do you think about that?
Because we a lot, it’s for the 90s.
It’s not 70s where, you know, rape’s just a fun thing thrown into a film.
Yeah.
What do you think of, what do you think of it?
And like, how do you think?
Like, I, I think it’s, it’s brutal.
1:09:22
It’s it’s I guess what you would say, though, is tastefully done.
It’s not like it’s not excessively lingering.
It’s, you know, it’s, it’s it’s it’s not there for just like funsies, like you’re saying.
1:09:39
It has a purpose and its purpose is to be brutal.
So it, it really does hit that note.
And I, I think that that’s important because, you know, a lot of times there is a a difference between show showcasing rape because you just want to have it in the film for really no reason or doing it for a purpose.
1:10:01
And in this case, the purpose is to give Elizabeth Berkeley this reason to be like, all right, I’m done with this industry.
You know, like there’s the, I’m, I’m tired of this, this back end of the, the industry that no one really sees but happens all the time.
1:10:17
And everybody’s just OK with it.
There’s like, yeah, it happens sometimes.
And we just, we just go on our way and everybody gets paid and everybody’s fine, right?
So I think that is tastefully done enough.
And I, I do think it’s brutal.
I think it’s, you know, it’s done in a way that is is meant to be shocking, but not not in a way that’s supposed to be, you know, erotic or anything like that to, you know, like a taboo rape.
1:10:44
What did you think?
Yeah, I mean it’s it is surprising, but I think it doesn’t work though, because the show like that underbelly of the entertainment business, like again, to show so better than, you know, the strip clubs and stuff.
1:11:06
Like, you know, Molly was a big they’re both big fans and first thing he said to you know, Elizabeth Berkeley is when they meet is like, yeah, have a great ass.
Yes, yes, he is my number and great.
You can just see the disgust on her face as she just walks away for you know, and now he’s wearing that awful velvet suit.
1:11:29
Yeah, Fabio looking fucker, but like it makes sense because again, like then we see like how Kyle Mclaughlin’s like we can’t like when she’s like, did you call the cops?
And he’s like, why would we?
He he might be on our, you know, on our tour now, like in a couple of years.
1:11:45
We can’t do that.
This is we’re going to play ball.
We’ll we’ll get her a nice, you know, dress shop, We’ll get her a nice dress shop and she’ll be fine.
Just, you know, let it blow her over.
And it’s just like the show, like how disgusting and like just unabashedly pieces of shit these people are.
1:12:04
And, you know, I, I, I think it works.
It’s just, it’s just like it’s, you know, like I, I think for the plot, you know, plot point, yeah, it works well.
1:12:20
The Doctor.
Needs a fucking cartoon.
Scoop.
And he’s, like, leaving the room.
Well, she’s been beat up and hurry, she’s got vaginal tears.
Bye.
Out of there.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You know, like, nothing we can do here.
1:12:36
No.
See.
You all right?
Yeah.
So we’re.
So we’re already running long on this, but I did want to pose this question to you.
Yeah.
Obviously it’s the crux of the, the the podcast series that we’re doing.
Do you think this is a bad movie?
No, not at all, not even close.
1:12:54
I’m only glad to recommend it for us to do because I haven’t seen it in forever.
And no, like I said, I’m glad we did it because with fresh eyes after haven’t seen it for 15 years.
Coming away with a totally.
Different perspective on it.
I would agree I.
1:13:11
Don’t think this is a bad movie at all.
It gets very unfairly characterized.
There are, I can think of movies from the 90s that are worse than this movie.
And I don’t really quite that are also set in Vegas.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Like, like The Flintstones, Viva Rock Vegas, like, I don’t, I don’t quite.
1:13:30
When people talk about Showgirls being a bad movie, I don’t really quite know why that is.
Like, I’m not.
I’m not sure what they’re pinpointing.
Are they saying Elizabeth Berkeley is bad?
Are they saying that the film as a whole is bad?
Are they saying like the direction is bad?
1:13:46
I I don’t really get any of that to AI mean.
I think there are there are moments that don’t work all that well and and, you know, potentially it is a flawed film.
I’m not going to say that it’s Paul Berhogan’s best film, but I definitely don’t think that it’s a bad movie.
I I would certainly actually not call it that at all.
1:14:05
I think it is a pretty good movie and I did enjoy watching it and I was pleasantly surprised, especially considering how long I saw it and I was like whoa, two hours long.
What the fuck is going on here?
But I know that was the first thing you sent me yes, you texted me.
You texted me last night. 2 hours and 11 minutes.
1:14:21
Holy.
But surprisingly it is an engaging movie.
It’s a good looking movie.
It has a you know it like we said, the production design is great.
It has a nice budget.
You could it’s it’s very colorful and pastel like and, and vivid throughout.
1:14:40
It’s a good looking movie.
And I think that it it has a lot of merit to it.
And I think some of that merit was missed.
I think that if people go in with fresh eyes and sort of take that cynical, sarcastic note that that Verhoeven is known for and kind of apply it to showgirls, they will see a different side of it that maybe they were not recognizing when they watched it, you know, for face value.
1:15:03
It’s not a bad movie.
It’s and it’s in in this scenario, we’re calling this difficult films.
Again, we did not really we didn’t pick the difficult films per SE.
We didn’t say these movies were difficult films for us.
We grabbed them from a list of what people consider to be bad films.
1:15:20
And I’m saying this was not a difficult film from this was a good.
I’ve like I’ve I enjoyed watching this movie is there’s no no difficulty at all for me. 0 out of 10 for difficulty.
All right, what else?
1:15:37
As we got that out.
I just want to make sure that we got that out.
I think the weakest part of.
The film is the soundtrack.
When the they’re doing the.
Dancing.
So you get that classical music.
Yeah, it’s sounds good, but the one they add the techno beats and shit over to like you’re watching Hackers.
1:15:59
It’s like a 90s movie though.
No, no, no, no, no, I’m not.
I’m I’m just saying yeah, yeah, yeah.
It’s like like you’re not this isn’t Blade in like the club, you know, just let it go, just let it fly.
But it’s such a.
I feel you, I think, I think.
1:16:17
Dave, I think Dave Stewart apparently did the music.
Oh yeah, Yeah, the Eurythmics.
Interesting to note.
Yeah, yeah, I mean, it’s, it’s OK.
It’s not, you know, not amazing.
I and I would also say that I don’t think that the script is like exceptionally good.
1:16:38
What do you think about the fact that like because no one’s pat like, you know, at the end where like, you know, Kyle.
Mclaughlin’s like.
We know who you are, Polly, and finds out that she’s been hooking across the country.
1:16:56
I think it’s I actually think in some ways it is meant to be a sort of non issue for the viewer too.
It’s not, because at this point you’re almost like, OK, so.
I, you know, I, I.
1:17:13
I agree, but again, like I feel like for the 90s that’s like the crux of like they’re like, Oh yeah, she is.
And it’s like again from.
You know when you see?
Her at the strip club at the Cheetah compared to at, you know, in Goddess, she’s still like whoring herself.
1:17:33
She’s, you know, still putting her body out there for titillation.
It’s I think like now it’d be much more of an accepted like, twist.
You can kind of tell it’s coming too, because like any time somebody calls her a horse, I’m not a who, you know, a Telegraph Deanna.
1:17:53
But it’s just like funny too, because comic loan was like how much are you charging for hooking?
How is she charging 5000?
She got low self esteem.
Babe got charged more spits his face.
What?
1:18:08
That was a compliment.
What the best fucks I’ve ever had.
Yeah, I’m a guy that’s.
Right.
All right, so let’s give this film a rating on a scale of zero to 10.
1:18:27
Budget, budget, budget on pasties, because I do think that there’s probably a lot of pasties, large number of pasties used on this one.
What would you give Showgirls?
Oh, verb ovens.
Yeah, wow.
That’s not part of the part of the title, but it should, It should be.
1:18:46
He should do the Carpenter things.
I’ll go to 7 1/2 out of 10.
I like this film a lot.
I was completely engrossed in watching this film.
I’m glad to have watched it with fresh eyes and not with like.
The tainted memory.
1:19:04
Of like reviews from 2010.
It’s a fun film, it’s over the top, it’s ridiculous, it’s campy, it’s got some great satire.
Again, the faults of the film that have been criticized before again, if if you don’t like like if you think Elizabeth Berkeley’s acting is terrible and you should take everybody’s sis because Paul’s clearly directing them to ham it up.
1:19:33
I think it’s just a really well it’s a well made film.
It’s a lot of fun.
I’m.
Pleasantly.
Surprised by how much I liked it.
The story is yes, it’s the plot.
Threats are yes, yeah.
1:19:49
But the spectacle of it all, which at the end of the day, if you’re doing like a Vegas thing, at the end of the day, it’s not the, you know, the nitty gritty and the nuts.
Bolsa matters.
The fucking spectacle.
This film is a spectacle.
It’s office time.
And I’m like, I appreciate the hell out of it. 7 1/2 out of 10 I’d say even.
1:20:12
If you do not, aren’t.
Going to like this film check it out like you should with all pure Paul Verhoeven films because it’s it is something and you know, I’m glad to have had this like change of heart experience because it’s like I appreciate it a lot.
1:20:32
So yeah, 7 now yeah, I’m I surprisingly I’m going to give this an 8 out of 10.
I actually quite enjoyed the movie.
I think that it’s actually, you know, much better than anyone has made it out to be.
I do think that, you know, critical reception of this movie, it may change as it gets a little bit more exposure.
1:20:52
Now, I do believe it did just get a release from Vinegar Syndrome on 4K not too long ago.
So, you know, I do think those pasties and 4K, that’s right.
I do think that it is going to have sort of a little revitalization here coming up.
1:21:12
And I think that that’s warranted.
I, I don’t think this is the worst movie of 1995 as it’s been portrayed.
And I think that it is actually a pretty good nuanced satire of, of, you know, the in something that we don’t see that that super often of, you know, because you see a lot of people trying to make it in show business and in stardom and in Hollywood, but you don’t really see a whole lot of it in other arts.
1:21:41
And I think that this movie kind of comes at it from a different perspective.
And it’s sort of on purpose does that does that because it doesn’t want to say the same things about, you know, trying to make it in Hollywood.
It it does something a little bit different.
And I think that it it works really well.
1:21:58
I think this is, you know, a good, very good movie.
I don’t think it’s his best, but it certainly has that cynicism that you would expect from it.
It just needed more Vegas infomercials.
I don’t know why he didn’t include any.
You know, he should have, should have had a few in there.
1:22:13
But other than that, I, I actually quite enjoyed this movie in it for me, not a difficult film.
And who knows, maybe we’ll see more people touting it in the future.
All right, well, I was.
1:22:29
I was, I was going to say, except the end.
As I was telling you, it’s like, why didn’t you show girls too as they’re heading towards Los Angeles?
And now that I think about it, they already made that film.
It’s called Scream three.
Yeah, right.
But but he also said they actually did make Showgirls 2.
1:22:47
It does have Penny from this movie The you know, the one who she said, well, my name’s not my name’s not Holly or whatever it is.
They they are going to call her in the movie.
And.
And Robert, Robert Davi has a hope.
He’s like, nobody wants to fuck a penny.
Yeah, he’s like, yeah, I love that, you know, so you’re at home.
1:23:06
We’re weather or Tiffany, yeah, whatever those something like that and everyone want a fucking tiff and.
Whatever it is though.
She she went on to make Showgirls 2 the the actual actress who played Penny in this movie.
So very interesting.
I’ve never seen it.
1:23:22
I assume that I had up to car.
I had no clue he even existed.
That might be a difficult film.
I will have to do exactly now that now that one might be a difficult but not this one.
This one is certainly gets an unfair rap for sure.
1:23:40
All right, so thanks for listening.
What do we got next time?
Difficult films are we?
We’re not announcing probably right.
We got a couple more that we know this is a 5 week series too.
So we have a few that we’re going to be doing as we get into May.
So you want to stick around because we’re not announcing them and we’re kind of going off the seat of our pants.
1:24:00
But what we’ll have another we’ll have another what week, what people consider bad films and then we’ll find out.
Do we also, because this is a nice kind of change up for us.
So obviously Plan 9 from Outer space, we were like, you know, that is a bad movie, that that movie was just plain bad.
1:24:15
Showgirls not so much.
So I guess we’ll we’ll find out in the next episode if if we are on a trend here or if we’re back to another bad movie.
I think we’re going to be doing.
Hit and play too.
Yeah, this is very nice.
1:24:32
House party 5, Medea Christmas.
Yeah, like, yeah, see again.
You just named off a bunch of really movies that I’m sure are worse.
So.
All right, well, thanks for listening.
I hope you enjoyed another difficult films as we did show girls.
1:24:48
Hope you stick around.
And if you do like what you’re hearing, you should have subscribed to us on pretty much any podcast apps you can think of.
Right on Apple podcast or home base and Spotify, whatever you listen to, I’m sure we’re on it.
So subscribe, leave us a nice review.
We’re on Facebook and Blue Sky.
You can search for us on their Blood and Black Run podcast.
We also have an e-mail address at [email protected] where you can write to us.
1:25:07
Let us know what you like, what you don’t like, what movies you want us to watch.
Throw us any bad films that you think are actually bad or let us know what you think about showgirls.
Be interested to see.
And you can donate to us on our Patreon page.
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1:25:26
Blood Bicorn podcast.
Thanks a lot for listening.
Hope you enjoyed and we’ll see you back for a more difficult films next time.
And until then, take care.
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