Episode: 368 • Duration: 01:22:20
We continue our westward expansion with a look at Clint Eastwood’s vehicle The Outlaw Josey Wales, a mid-70s American western directed by the actor which melds an revenge plot against the Union with… a libertarian ideal about starting your own community outside government rule? We talk about the interesting ideas at play in the film, the inclusion of a lot of spit, and a whole lot more!
We’re also drinking the new recipe Newcastle Brown Ale!
Tune in all August as we continue Red Hot Action Summer!
Hit that play button above to listen in.
Transcript – Red Hot Action Summer: Westward Ho! (3) THE OUTLAW JOSEY WALES (auto-generated)
Click to expand full transcript
0:01
Howdy partners.
Welcome back to the Blood of Black Rum podcast Red Hot Action Summer.
This year, we’re not going to a specific era.
Instead, we’re heading out West, what we’re calling Westward Ho.
This time you’ll find American Westerns from all kinds of eras.
0:19
There’s sure to be some Clint Eastwood, some Pecked Pot and Ethan John Wayne with a couple of surprises thrown in as well to tell your mom pop, come on out, saddle up and listen in all August for red hot action summer Westward Ho.
0:39
Hey everyone, welcome back to the Blood and Black Rum podcast.
I’m Ryan from coltsploitation.com and I’m joined with my Co host Mark.
How’s it going?
Pretty good.
Hold on one second.
Sorry, just had to just had a spit in my spittoon over there.
It’s going to be.
0:56
What do you mean?
Spit in the spittoon, you mean.
Spit in the spittoon.
Spitting in public?
It’s true.
Yeah.
You don’t even need a spittoon.
You don’t.
You know what, Yeah, people do now with their with their Tabaki chewing tobacci is they just take around like a soda bottle and then just just right into the soda bottle, which is I guess at least a little bit respectful, but instead of just like Hawking it right onto the floor, you know, but I don’t know I would.
1:30
How do you feel?
Yeah, when you, when you’re doing your chewing tobacco, when you and you got your your packet shoved in there, you just spitting it anywhere.
I don’t know, I guess I’m like crutchless fuck because I never like thinks like spitting Publix like that picked up a deal.
1:50
Oh, OK.
OK, so like Hawking A loogie?
Yeah.
Like if you got to do it, you got.
To.
Do it.
Just don’t be, you know, like, yeah, obnoxious about it.
Sure.
OK.
You know, well, like, like, yeah, I mean, if you, if you’ve got a, you know, if you’ve got just a little bit of phlegm to get out, sure.
2:08
You know, just give it a just, you know, respectful little on the ground.
You know, it doesn’t need to get right next to somebody where somebody’s walking, but.
Mouth is overly, yeah, salivated and like, you know, yeah, I don’t I’ve never been one.
Like, I think if you do it like our protagonist does in this movie, like, yeah, it can be annoying because it’s not just if he’s like.
2:28
Right now it’s just like a whole, it’s like a whole, whole juice that’s coming out, you know, it’s.
It’s a Tex Avery bit.
Yeah, it’s like you squeeze the lemon and it’s everywhere.
But the reason we’re getting into spit talk here on Blood and Background Podcast is because we’re still in our red hot action summer westward Ho still still heading West, and we are covering a different movie in the American Western saga that we’ve been doing of late.
3:04
This one is a Clint Eastwood movie.
It’s porno.
This line is so much spitting.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Something like that.
The 1970s this time, mid to late 70s probably.
Movie was probably shot in mid 70s, going to say probably 7475, released in 1976 and a lot of spitting in there.
3:30
And this is a direct.
I’m sorry.
This is Clint Eastwood’s direction as well, because we’re getting into a time period here in Clint Eastwood’s life where he said, you know what, sick of taking Italian people’s direction, going to do my own direction.
3:53
Obviously this movie in 1976, not his first directed film that was Playing Misty for Me back in 1971, but it is his second Western that he’s directed and we’re talking about that was that was your cue.
4:13
Sorry, that was your cue.
No, I, I was going to let you fill it in, but no, that’s fine.
I’ll take it.
The Outlaw Josie Wales.
That’s what we’re talking about.
Oh.
Clint Eastwood, The Outlaw.
Josie Wales.
Yeah, that’s right.
How do you feel about, before we even get in anything else, how do you feel about an outlaw, you know, really gruff and rumble tumble outlaw that’s named Josie?
4:37
How do you feel about that?
Well, you know what he needs.
His Pussycats, Yeah, and and also we were.
The entire sorry to cut you up the entire time like I was thinking of like the like what, 2001 movie Josie and the Pussycats.
4:55
Oh, right.
Yeah, and like the saw the song surrounded, like spinning around, spinning around, spinning around, spinning around all day.
Hey, we’re going to have to do that for like a Tara Reid block, you know?
Yeah, it’s true.
I I feel like Clint Eastwood did not expect a Josie and a Pussycats movie though when he made this movie.
5:15
And then like Mcclintock or Mcclintock, we have sort of a potential to mispronounce the name ’cause I feel like a couple times they do pronounce his name Josie.
Like emphasis on the S, Josie.
5:31
What’s up, Josie?
And then you’ve also got Josie.
We know more of AZ sound on the S so you know a double name there again now this.
I’m, I’m, I’m going to go with Josie.
You’re going to say Josie with the Z sound.
5:50
And that’s how I wouldn’t generally say it as well.
I, I do find that it is not the stereotypical characteristic gruff name for a, you know, Clint is, you know, certainly not the man with no name.
You know, you go with the Man with No name to Josie.
6:08
Hey, Josie.
You know, it’s sort of, I don’t know, it just seems seems a little bit more lighter than the mysteriousness of, you know, the man with no name or something.
Because you’re supposed to be able to connect to him.
It’s true.
It’s true.
You know, yeah, he’s not just a tumbleweed blowing through a town.
6:27
Yeah, he’s got a little bit a little bit more emotional heft, which we’ll talk about, Yeah.
Which by the way, we’re going to really have to do Josie and the Pussycats because I also forgot that it’s not just a Tara Reid vehicle, it’s Rachel Lee Cook and Rosario Dawson vehicle, so.
6:49
It’s true.
Two of my Hollywood.
There you go.
Favorite song?
We will have to do it at some point.
What about the outlaw Jersey Wales?
What do you?
So you’re the one that picked this one?
Yes.
Why?
Two reasons.
7:09
One, we needed a Clint film.
Clint.
Not a not a glowing recommendation.
We just needed one.
We needed a Clint film.
It’s true, yeah.
If you’re doing American Western, God do Clint Sure.
Also, too.
I’ve seen parts of it.
7:25
I’ve never seen it in whole, like with Mcclintock.
This was on like T TCM at TM, you know, TCM at times when they were two like western bronze.
Like to be honest, thinking about it, I’m I’m curious to how the hell that went with the sensors and cutting it for TV, but.
7:50
Yeah, probably not too bad.
Yeah, but like I’ve seen, I’ve like, I saw like bits and pieces of it, like, you know, the opening action sequences and some of the things.
And, you know, it’s always been a movie that I’ve wanted to watch because I knew it’s one of, you know, consider one of Clint’s, you know, finest outings and that, you know, him also as a director.
8:12
I do like his work.
And I, you know, was like, got to put this on the bucket list, you know?
Sure.
So that’s why I suggested that, you know, and I already knew because we’ve mentioned it before.
I think on and off the air you have.
I’ve never seen this one either, so.
8:30
Nope.
So we were getting a 2 for here that you know.
It’s true.
No, I’ve never seen it.
You know, I’ve seen a number of other Clint movies, but never, I don’t actually don’t think I’ve ever seen besides Gran Torino.
I don’t think I’ve ever seen another Clint directed movie because I’ve never seen him play misty for me.
8:49
Gone, baby.
No, no.
No, never seen it, no.
So I it might be my only.
Flags are your father or letters from Iwo Jima.
Used to.
They used to play the fuck out of those two movies in on FX back in the day.
9:05
Yeah, no, I’ve never seen either of those.
So it may be my only film from Clint Eastwood that I’ve seen that he’s directed now, but I have seen a number of other Clint Westerns, you know, specifically as spaghetti Westerns and I do love them.
9:24
I mean, I think that he he had a typecast role, if there is any definition of it.
He has it for these types of Western feels and he certainly hits the mark.
I think like, you know, when you think Western first and foremost, even though some of the other films like Django have kind of proliferated, I, at least for me and I think for most other people, you think Clint Eastwood, it’s really difficult to put a different face to that Western.
9:57
I mean, maybe maybe Lee Van Cleef, you might think of, you know, secondarily, but I do think that Clint Eastwood really comes to mind and and you know, for good reason.
I think he just, you know, there for one thing, he did so many for another, he just has this very particular affront to him that is just kind of drives the idea of the solitary western, you know, hero and and and it it becomes almost sort of an archetype in and of itself.
10:29
And and of course it’s an archetype, you know, played off of other archetypes, but at the same time, it is it’s kind of its own thing.
And you know, here in this movie, he’s not really doing that much different, which we’ll talk about.
10:45
You know, he’s he’s still, if you kind of took his character from The Good, The Bad and the Ugly or anything else and kind of transplanted it in this movie for long stretches, you probably wouldn’t notice any difference.
Besides maybe his hair is a little bit longer than this one.
11:00
He’s got like that nice quaff going on.
It’s so beautiful.
It’s like a nice featheriness leading him into the 80s, I think.
But but yeah, I mean, for the most part, you wouldn’t necessarily notice much difference.
Although I do think that in this movie, he’s trying to get a little bit more range out of himself that maybe he hasn’t been asked to do in some of his other Westerns, you know?
11:25
You’re sitting here and you’re going, is that Harry Callahan?
But back in, you know, 1950s and 60s, not, you know, 1970s San Francisco.
Exactly.
Exactly.
So, but yeah, I think, you know, it’s a good pick because again, we were trying to do some different eras.
11:47
This is obviously for for Clint Eastwood, the 70s specifically, this later period is kind of the big deal for him.
I think that it is an important element to to add for American Westerns because again, we’ll kind of talk about this as we get more into the movie, but the outlaw Josie Wales is definitely much more Americanized than you see from a spaghetti western.
12:12
We’ll talk about how kind of Clint brings that particular directorial style into the American way that maybe they couldn’t deal with the spaghetti Western.
And, you know, some of the ways that those differ, even though the similarities are, you know, a present in this movie.
12:31
So but.
It’s also too like, because it’s like, you know, it comes out in 76.
It’s basically one of the last like, kind of like least in my eyes, kind of like feels like one of the last like big hurrahs for like the American Western.
12:52
Because, you know, by the time, like the early 80s, you know, rolling around, Westerns are fully out of, you know, taste in Hollywood and, you know, replaced by the modern action film.
And not to say they’re never to be made again, but you know, the whole industry, like having a little cottage industry, dedicated pop and, you know, pump the films out, you know, it’s gone.
13:19
And you know what?
I’m going to like, put a little soapbox here.
Congress, you need to pass a law that says like, listen, this is America, dammit.
You need 3 at least 5 westerns a year.
That’s true.
That’s true.
We need to, we need to heritage, right, You know?
13:37
You know.
There, there needs to be a production companies like American, American Heritage, you know.
That’s literally as as American, American as America gets.
Like, you know, listen, I don’t want to have to just wait every five years for like True Grit come around, you know, for the for the Coen brothers to be like, all right, let’s do something great, you know, or whatever the hell.
14:01
Get on that.
It’s true, yeah.
We need something.
We need something more from our, you know, again, like they’re.
Don’t let cowboy versus aliens you know.
Yeah, be the be the one that defines us right now.
Yeah.
And I think there are every now and then there are some.
14:16
And I think to to that point or, you know, the other problem is you have stuff like Yosemite that’s like trying to stand in as a western and be doing a very poor job.
And you’re like, you know, and it’s a spin.
14:32
Off of.
Well, there’s like Yosemite and Yellowstone.
I was going to say yeah.
Is it like a spin off in?
Yellowstone or not really, I think they’re all different kinds of things, but they’re all doing, you know, essentially the same thing, which is a bastardization of, you know, a Western or just like a poorly written version of 1.
14:51
So I do think like, you know, again, those types of things sort of take away from the dynamic of the Western in a way, you know, and unfortunately we have no more Elmore Leonard who can, you know, crank out a nice Western story, you know, situated or, or even, you know, a combination neo noir style Western.
15:13
Yeah, you don’t have to.
Like, I’m not saying it has to be pure, you know, Buster Scruggs, you know?
Sure.
It neo noir, you know revisionist scope go ham.
But at least like have a quota set like I should see one or maybe 4/1 for every season so you can do.
15:30
Like, you know.
You know.
Now you’re starting to sound like the an anime community.
It will.
We need, you know, we need one core every season.
I want to see quince boobies to the wheel.
Anyway.
15:47
Who?
Who’s our discord?
Catan, if you’ve got if you’re a lady and you love listening to the podcast.
That’s right.
Message us on Facebook so you can become our designated Discord Katong.
16:06
Yeah.
All right, let’s take a break.
Before we go any further, let’s talk about the beer that we have on the show today.
So is my is my turn on Martin did have a pretty good suggestion of, you know, since this film does take place in large part in Texas.
16:26
You know, the idea was to try to find a Texas based brewery and he offered up Shiner Shiner Bock, which I I’m pretty sure that we have not had on the show.
I think I’ve had it like once before and I’ve had a couple other Shiner beers.
16:42
It’s not about super impressive to me.
They haven’t been, but you know that I thought it was a good, good pick.
So I did go out and look for Shiner, but I could not find him anywhere around I would.
Say, I do know we have Bach around because I’ve been meaning to try.
16:58
I’ve never had the Bach.
I think the only Shiner we’ve done was either an Oktoberfest or is like the Pecan Winter Ale.
Yeah, it was one of those two.
I do.
Yeah, I agree.
I think.
I think we did the Oktoberfest if I’m not mistaken.
But I mean, I even used the, their online beer search and I, I couldn’t find anywhere else.
17:16
So I went to look at where it said there it was and they didn’t have it.
So either was flying off the shelves or it was an outdated sort of thing with either.
Whatever the case, I couldn’t find it.
So I went with the next best thing, which is import from England, you know, because that totally makes sense for the, the, you know, we’re not even talking Revolutionary War or anything where I could have tried to, you know, finagle that in and say, well, listen, but I can.
17:48
I can finagle it in.
Yeah, I mean, you can.
I’m sure you can let.
Me do that real.
Quick, I can get get us to England from from Texas here.
Which if the fact that you’re not instantly when you hear the word Texas in 2026 and you’re not going choosing Texas by you know that little Angley song, you know anyway sidebar Civil War Western theater Missouri, you know, battles going on Union in the Confederacy might have been a Confederate camp that had a British officer who is studying the battle.
18:33
That’s how you get here there.
OK.
All right.
That’s sure, yeah.
Like, like, like in Gettysburg, OK.
All right, the movie.
Gettysburg, yeah.
I’ll allow it.
I’ll allow it.
And there’s probably a easier way to get to that point from the outlaw Josie Wales.
18:49
Like, just like somebody was British in the movie, but.
The Enfield Rifles.
OK, all right.
Yeah, that works.
Anyway, the reason why I got this beer was simply because we’ve talked about it on the show previously and that we were interested in trying it because we knew that it got sold and that it’s potentially a changed recipe.
19:14
So that’s it.
That’s really the reason.
So we got Newcastle Brown Ale on here and I think we’ve talked about this a little bit in that Newcastle has really kind of fallen away where you can’t really find it that easily anymore around, at least around us.
19:30
It used to be you could just go into like your local grocery store and they had Newcastle and sometimes they had Newcastle Werewolf.
You could go to your local starts.
Yeah, up here in upstate New York, like yeah, again like thinking about it’s like don’t know who was distributing it back in the early twenty 10s, but when I worked that starts, we had it.
19:54
That’s how I first tried it.
You used to just kind of be able to go and get it and now it’s really falling away from us.
Not really mass marketed anymore.
We, I’ve not seen it in many places.
So when I saw it here and also realized that it was a current beer and not like a really old one that had been sitting on the shelf, I grabbed it because I thought that would be something interesting to try.
20:19
So.
It’s also not the log Anita’s revamp that came out while in the interim when Heine, which I thought this was going to be, but I’m when I look after Ryan dropped the bottles off says, you know, it’s brewed in the UK and by Heineken.
So it’s not the logging neatest 1.
20:35
So I don’t know if they still make those ones or not, but they kind of filled the gap in with their own recipe for like a couple of years because they stopped importing Newcastle because it wasn’t selling well here, right?
So and I don’t even know if we had the Lagunas version.
20:53
I’m not.
I can’t remember now.
I’m not.
I don’t think we ever did.
Yeah.
But now we this, yeah, this is definitely the Heineken version because if you look on the bottle, you know, it definitely says Heineken, direct your complaints to Heineken’s e-mail address, stuff like that.
So the one thing I do like about this though, is that they’ve, you know, for better or worse, they have retained the clear bottles, which is just something that Newcastle has always done traditionally.
21:22
And, you know, that’s kind of a no, no now for especially for beers like this that can go can.
I mean, brown ales are kind of darker, so they tend to not be as tainted by the sun.
But you know, much like the Coronas and the the Mexican lagers that are bottling in clear bottles, Newcastle doing the same and did have a tendency to get quite skunky at times, at least in the the old recipe.
21:49
What I will say is that I think they’re taking a little bit more precaution where the boxes they can very heavy duty.
So there’s not a lot of light seeping into it.
So you still get the clear bottles.
And I like it because I think it does really showcase the the clarity of the brown ale that you have in there.
22:09
And I will say that I think this recipe is pretty good.
I can’t for the life of me remember back it’s been probably 10 years now since I last had a regular Newcastle.
I can’t remember what the actual taste was like, but I I would say that I I think this is pretty tasty.
22:26
It is sort of like it definitely has a more English style brown ale flavour to it’s.
They got a nice multi body.
Still very drinkable though.
The mouth feel is is somewhat thin, like almost what you would expect from a nice like drinkable lager style, a little bit of nuttiness to it.
22:46
Not extensive nuttiness that you would expect from like a, you know, more a traditional American brown ale that we have which which really like drives in those caramel roasty nutty notes more so than this one.
This is almost more like a, you know, it’s a very drinkable, sessionable multi with just as a hint of like that caramel Ness to it.
23:10
I like it a lot.
I I would definitely get this again as just like a, you know, if you’re sick of loggers, sick of like just plain old standard Americanized loggers, I think a brown ale from Newcastle is is what I would prescribe, you know, to get you out of your doldrums.
23:26
So what what about you?
What do you think?
Yeah, it’s nice to have it back again.
I like you don’t recall, it’s been like a decade since last time I’ve had it.
It’s you know, this would be, I think, pretty solid rotational fall and, you know, winter beer because it’s got the easy drinking this and like a thin body, like a lager.
23:59
No for you to easily kick back.
But it’s got enough breadiness, maltiness, nuttiness to make it, you know, get feel like it’s heavier than it actually is and make you feel like I’m being a little bit toasty here.
24:16
You know, feels like a little bit of like a pumpernickel, not spicy or anything, but like I do like I’m glad that you know, it’s bad because it is like it is.
This is solid.
And I do think it’s great too, because I do think about like the Facebook ad they used to like in the 20 like 2017 or some shit, whereas like directed for American audiences.
24:38
And it’s like, no, you know, Newcastle, no bollocks.
And they’re like interviewing people.
And that’s like, I used to think Newcastle brown ale would be heavy because it’s a brown ale.
Boy, wasn’t I fucking stupid.
Like to go on and talk about like how it’s like like refreshing and easy.
24:56
It is true because like for American palates, your general American beer drinker, this is going to be, they would think like this is so heavy.
It’s like the same thing when you talk to somebody who’s like, I drink dark beer, heavy beer, like Guinness.
And it’s like if you drink enough Guinness in the world, you know, it’s not heavy at all because it’s nitrogen, it’s creamy and it’s 3% like, you know, ABV.
25:20
So, you know, yeah, I like the change up.
I like, I like it a lot.
It’s kind of like more complex, like if you were to say like a dos equis, A curl like.
25:35
Dark, like the darker, Yeah, I was, I was thinking a very similar, along the similar lines there.
It’s just sort of like the yeah, sort of like that or Modello Negro sort of thing going on.
Yeah, I do get a similar style to that, but I think it’s really good.
25:51
I think it’s really refreshing.
Would definitely get it again if I find it, but again, it it kind of makes you miss being able to just go out there and and get it like, you know, it’s it’s just not you got to kind of go search for it now and again, like Newcastle werewolf that’s non existent.
26:09
You used to be able to at least get that when it came around for, you know, during the fall.
And now I have I don’t even know if they make it and maybe they don’t even make it anymore.
Like maybe Heineken is just like, no, we’re only making Newcastle Brown and that is it.
So if you’re listening, make the werewolf again, because it’s just like a fun little thing.
26:30
What would you rather have this or magic hat to come back?
Oh Newcastle werewolf 100%.
Other than than like the magic hat right as a dead pit.
26:47
Yeah like I mean the hex Oktoberfest was was not even close to their best beer for sure.
It was their best, but yeah, I would still take the werewolf.
All right, I’m almost curious.
27:03
I would almost I almost at this point.
I think they still met #9 still getting produced.
Yeah, you had said that before that they were they are making it just doesn’t really get.
Distributed, I think that’s the one thing they’re making anymore, but I kind of, I’m curious enough to try it because I know Magic Cat and if you probably listened to the earlier episodes, I probably bitched about them at Ad Nauseam because I hated every fucking beer they’ve ever made except Tax.
27:30
Except tax because there’s a good actual on like Oktoberfest.
But #9 really pissed me off because it’s like it’s not a paleo only drinking.
It’s like, it’s a fucking pear apricot fruit beer and it tastes like shit.
What the hell?
And so I’d be kind of curious in my old age of four, do you see if I drink that now?
27:50
I’m like, oh, this is like, this is just like so delightful, you know?
It’s true.
Good enough about Obama year.
Beer.
That’s right.
That’s true.
That’s true.
We’re going to the Carters.
Yeah.
28:06
No, this would be Ford.
Ford still.
Yeah, we’re going back to the Civil War and in, in this film, the Union, those bluebellies, they’re just shit heels that are raping and pillaging good Christian Confederate homes, you know, people who are just minding their own business.
28:30
And that’s really what spurs Clint Eastwood’s character Josie Wales on.
He’s the beginning of the movie.
I will say it’s a great harrowing moment at the beginning of the movie where it’s almost, you know, sort of like Patriot style, which the patriot obviously we’re we’re talking 30 years later.
28:46
But the same idea is, is where Josie Wales is just, you know, having a frolicking time in the woods with his son.
They’re, you know, they’ve been hunting or whatever and, and he comes back and what’s, what’s, what are they doing this, this union people, which they are, they’re calling the red Legs here, which were of a faction of the union like, almost like a sort of like secret malicious style.
29:13
Like a paramilitary.
Yeah, and I didn’t really know about them either.
I had to look up Red Legs specifically because I, I don’t know that they necessarily teach that in the Civil War, you know, American government and civics classes.
29:29
But they, they basically, he comes back to his house burning down, his wife being ripped out and taken from the, the house and his son’s still in there.
And there’s this.
And he try, he tries to help, but he gets pistol whipped across the face, leaving a nice scar that will remain throughout the film, cutting into his, you know, his signature beard.
29:57
And there’s a great, I mean, it’s great, honestly, when he’s dragging his dead son underneath the like a tarp or whatever that he’s got and the hand falls out and you can just see like this tiny little burned hand.
It’s great.
It’s a great moment.
Props to to Clint Eastwood for really tugging at the heartstrings there of, you know, just to say like these fucking union people, you know, look how terrible they are.
30:23
Which, by the way, this is based on a book.
I didn’t even know this book existed.
Yeah, I saw that just mentioned at the beginning of the film by Forrest Carter.
Yeah, the.
Outlaw Josie.
Wales do not know this author at all.
Which is always the fun thing.
30:40
I love when films are made and they’re made like based off of books and they got the rights to the books like as soon as they come out and it’s like a book that’s not even big or anything.
It’s just like we’re going to do a movie about it like you know, and it, you know.
The one thing that you would think is, like, you would expect to have seen, like, Louis Lemoore wrote like, fucking 300 Western novels, didn’t he?
31:04
Like, why?
Why aren’t there more Louis Lemoore?
It’s just this one.
Yeah.
It’s like, why aren’t there more of those books?
Like, all of a sudden.
Yeah.
Somebody just was the thing that it seems like is like this was like sort of a passion thing, Somebody who’s reading Forrest Carter’s novel and they’re like, wow, I really like this novel.
31:22
Like, I have to make it.
I don’t really like, Again, like you said, it’s sort of a nobody sort of thing, an unknown novel.
Probably anybody who is thinking about the outlaw Josie Wales is probably thinking the Clint Eastwood movie instead of the book.
31:41
But yeah, it was based on a novel.
And yeah, at this time, you know, if you were an author, you were probably hoping somebody would just stumble upon your random book in the bookstore.
And also.
Too well also too, because when we did the fucking rabbit movie, well, you’re going to have the remind me what the fuck it’s called.
32:00
Oh, Night of the Lepus.
Yeah, the latest.
Yes, that was based off of a book again, the 70s.
That’s why it’s the best decade for films man.
It’s true.
Fucking anything goes like that’s.
Right.
Yeah, it’s just.
Like all you need is one person who’s like AB list Hollywood, you know, in Hollywood, whether it be like a writer, act or whatever the hell be like, hey, man, Emily, get read this book and then like, you know, they.
32:24
And you just.
Go and talk to Bones McCoy and he’s like, well this is fucking stupid, but sure, send it down to the studio and they’re like, well why not?
It costs a quarter to get the.
We’re like, we got nothing.
What’s going on right now?
I mean, go for it.
Yeah, it’s it is interesting.
32:41
Like, I don’t know, Again, it’s hard to say.
I don’t know how much that why Josie Wales really takes from that book versus sort of making up most of the rest of it.
It’s like again, I’ve I’ve just never seen or heard of the book before.
Kind of show how many books there are in the world.
32:59
Just like random shit that you could read.
I don’t know, the writing industry does, you know, befuddled me, you know, thinking about Stephen King and like, you know, I don’t like with Coon sees they got like, you know, ghost writers and stuff.
But even still, it’s like Jesus Christ, like, how do you how the fuck do you do that?
33:18
Like pump that.
Much crank him.
I will say, yeah, the opening is great.
Love it.
It’s a lot like for me, and I was thinking about Once Upon a Time in the West when Henry Fonda’s gang shows up and murders the, you know, the farm family at the homestead, right?
33:37
Yeah.
And and I think like to your point, that is a very common trope of the revenge plot of a Western film, right?
Like something that spurs our hero on.
It’s not.
And again, to one of the things about the Western film, and particularly Clint Eastwood style Western film, is that it’s not necessarily Clint Eastwood has just a, a big heart, right?
34:01
He’s not he, you know, he’s not setting out and like, I need to stop these union members because I believe in this moralistically.
Like, you know, I, I, I, you know, this is my, my ethical stance on what they’re doing in the Civil War.
It’s.
So here’s my I have a problem with this.
34:19
I as a God fearing, history loving you know will not stand for pro confederate nonsense.
Of well, no, I agree with that.
No, no.
34:34
No, no.
So like so like the opening like like it’s not based on a real event, even if it was like to use it as like a, you know, crutch to be like why yes, you know, the government is bad and we just trying to bat be down here and be free.
34:58
You know, it’s stupid and doesn’t work.
It works in ways here because again, when we talk about like, like the chief and others, like, you know, talking about, you know, the American government as a whole fucking them over.
35:14
But it, you know, like the Indians and such valid points and all that.
But at the same time like to use because again, Josie Wales is no, you know, died in the wall.
You know, he’s running out there singing Dixie and the Tom petting the heartbreakers, you know, rebels.
35:33
You know, he’s doing it because his they came and, you know, raped and pillaged his farm.
But to him, like then team up with the Confederates and be like, I’m not going to quit and baby that you know, it does give like a it’s a lost cause.
Like if it’s like kind of hinting at any glory at lost cause.
35:52
Shit, I irks the shit out of me because that’s why, you know, these assholes today get so mad at you know why the tear down those Stonewall Jackson brags and brags, you know, brags, you know, statue, look at me, please.
So I mean it’s a small part and that doesn’t like this.
36:10
You know, I’m just saying I’m going on a little race here like that, like like as awesome as like, you know, I’m good as attention storytelling as that is for reasons for the opening.
I don’t you know, the, the whole, you know, Confederates, you know, being riding around like the fuck it, like, you know, in the Patriot with Belle Gibson riding around all Missouri, you know.
36:35
Yeah, I completely agree with that because I was almost ready at the beginning of the film to kind of write this movie off.
I was like, Clint, what are you doing?
Like, because there is a very almost revisionist style apologetic like, well, look what the Confederates are just trying to be like, you know, just living their lives here in in this areas and and like to a certain extent individually.
36:57
Sure.
And I think the reason why I do why I was like after that occurred and we sort of get into the meat of the movie, I was more readily accepting of what the film kind of plays out is that I think it it is AI don’t like the opening, like you said, for the same reason.
37:21
But I think once it really gets into the film, it it kind of shies away from that.
And what it really is, is trying to get at is like, listen, like the union is trying to round up all these what they call outlaws because they were used to be Confederates.
37:36
And sort of all they’re really doing is making them sign their lives over and say, listen, we’re not going to, you know, we’re not going to go into union anymore.
And, and it’s not working.
It I think is like what the, what the idea of the film is saying is it’s not working to just go around and round up posses of people and like make them sign their name because first of all, like they don’t care.
38:00
Second of all, like there are still going to be people around that may or may not be sympathetic to the Confederacy.
And all it’s really doing is causing more violence.
And the film kind of goes into that throughout.
38:15
And it’s showing, like you said, the government itself is not doing a very good job of managing the population and managing the violence that is occurring between, you know, like, as they’re trying to come together, they’re really not right.
38:31
And so the idea behind Josie is that he’s he’s an outlaw, but he literally is bringing people together.
Like he’s rounding up a merry band of misfits, you know, sort of like Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer style over here, you know, collecting all these people, collecting an Indian chief, collecting who he calls a squaw and it just collecting all these people and like they’re.
38:55
Just.
Yeah, they’re all disturbed Mexican.
And I think like, the ironic thing is like he’s doing a much better job and cleaning things up at the same time, you know, like in he’s, he’s able to sort of, you know, give his word and live peaceably with other Native American nations that they’ve never been able to manage and.
39:18
It’s a very, I was going to say, it’s very like libertarian, like, you know, like very.
True, very true.
This inept government, you know, being the overlords when we can come together and work it out and.
Do it ourselves, right?
39:34
Exactly like.
As men and as I say, the whole like, you know, that was a thing too.
Like when the Confederacy surrendered like you had, they had to go.
They had to turn their arms in.
They had to, you know, sign, take an oath saying that, which again, makes sense if you’re, you know, if you were rebelling against this country, you know.
39:59
We we like your word that you might not do that again.
Yeah.
Which which again, but like the film doesn’t talk about, you know, reconstruction and the failures of it.
So that’s like a whole different topic.
But yeah, like, like that’s like good because you.
I didn’t like the fact that like maybe there should have been more than just the one fucking blonde haired dip shit being like good, like maybe have one other guy be like, yeah, no, like it’s bullshit.
40:27
And but because the rest of them are old and tired and they’re like, I just want to fucking go home.
Like which you can understand too.
Like if you were in a war and you got your, you know, ass kicked.
And I’m not just saying like, you know, right, you know, the Union just dominate him.
40:44
Obviously not look at this, you know, battles and stuff.
But after fight, like, you know, four years of fighting, you’re probably like tired.
I want to go home.
My wife’s probably dead.
Right, yeah, in the in the, in the sort of like the anxiety of it too, of the situation of being, you know, like literally your could be potentially your neighbors.
41:07
You know, they’re, I mean, I’m not saying that that happened a lot, like there was a lot of like by state lines and things, but but like the the anxiety of the constantly being at war at home, it takes a toll.
And yeah, you can understand in the at the end of it, there’s just like I’m I’m done, I’m done.
41:23
And like, what is there left to do?
The sickest Fletcher, the guy who’s the leader of this, you know, band of ragamuffins, He’s the one that sell, you know, turns them in and convinces them.
He’s like, I’ve had enough, I’m tired, I want to go home, you know, Right.
41:39
And you know, and, and to be fair too, because like, we don’t know, like how long they fought in the war, could have been the entire time.
But because like Josie’s just happened and like, because my wife and kids are dead, like, you know, his vengeance can live on.
41:56
It’s like the torch bearer to keep, you know, be the flame of the Confederacy to keep on going because you know of what happened.
Yeah.
I mean, I, I think that the setup is really good because you have sort of this and again, like Fletcher himself is, yes, he sets them up, but he doesn’t realize that they’re going to actually like murder them like that.
42:16
That happens at the, you know, right at the start where basically they just pull out a machine gun and just start gunning everybody down, even though they said that they were just going to sign them into the union.
It’s not a machine.
Gun, sorry.
Gatling gun that pisses me off every time when I’m playing Red Dead and they’re like get on the machine gun and it’s like it’s a fucking Gatling gun.
42:35
And then Red Dead 2 they have the audacity to be like get on the Gatling gun and it’s a fucking Max a machine gun.
But but it like, so, you know, he does set him up, but but at the same time, you know, he has that sympathy with the with the the outlaws and with Josie.
42:52
And so, and he’s basically being forced into this position of like, all right, well, I have to go after Josie and I have to, you know, help these red legs that I, you know, may not necessarily agree with to bring him back in, because that’s what the government is telling me to do.
43:11
And that kind of sets up this very similar to something like the Wild Bunch of, you know, be a posse that’s following our protagonist at every turn.
And very similarly to the Wild Bunch as well.
This movie does sort of in the middle of it take a sort of like left hand turn to go a different direction for a little while, while the posse that’s following is sort of left out of the the main narrative for a bit, which I found it very interesting because the movie again, is like about two hours and 15 minutes long.
43:47
Not saying that it’s overly long, but I do think that for a large part of it towards that like middle to like third act area, I do find that Fletcher’s band of misfits led by that red leg guy Jamie kind of drops out and it sort of leaves a really weird LOL in the proceedings.
44:10
And like, it’s like the last 20 minutes, like, wait.
Yeah.
Where the hell it like, it’s like, well, you know they’re going to show up because the movie’s almost over, but it’s like they’ve been gone.
For 40 minutes, right?
And I do I my one complaint there.
And I’m not even saying that I think that the rest of the proceedings that occur like, you know, especially the Comanche Indians and things like that, that they do have encounters with.
44:35
I’m not saying that those are boring or anything, but it does almost feel like they kind of lost the plotting a little bit in terms of the the pursuing, you know, union people, the soldiers that are coming after them.
Just feel like they sort of left that hanging for a while.
44:53
And then at the end of the film, they kind of pick it back up.
And, and at that point, I feel like some of the, the impetus of it is, is gone because you, you’re almost, and I think two-part of the problem is Jamie as the red leg is not extremely clear as an antagonist.
45:12
It’s Captain Terrell you’re thinking of.
Am I?
Oh, sorry.
Yes.
Sorry, Captain Terrell.
Yeah.
The the Red light captain.
Jamie’s the little.
The little guy, yeah.
The little goofball was like we.
Whooped.
That’s right.
Yeah.
No.
So like with Captain Terrell, I think that he’s not fleshed out enough to the point where it really cements this vengeance trip that we have Josie going on.
45:41
Yes, he was part of the Red Legs that attacked and murdered his family, but I don’t think that the film spends enough time showcasing like Kim as a particular antagonist in that part to really give it much haft at the end.
45:59
And so and and again, I think like the the vengeance piece is something that westerns do a lot.
This movie doesn’t necessarily need that.
I think what it does better is just bring it, like I said, bringing this band of disparate people together to showcase like, look, they can make a community like even like the J the, the grandma Jayhawker is going on and on about life.
46:21
I hate.
You know, I, I, there’s really funny part is when the, the guy in the saloon is like, not this in the general store is like, well, you know, I’m a Hoosier and she’s like, I can’t really stand them either.
You know, it’s really funny, but like at the end of the film, you know, it kind of brings her together and it brings, you know, like I said, the Indian Chief Lone Watie together.
46:42
I I think Chief Dan George does a great job.
He’s one of the most, you know, the the the person that brings the most comedic lever levity to the film.
But I think it’s another really funny scene where the grandmother’s like, we’re going to get these Redskins, no offense.
47:03
And he’s like none taken.
No problem, no problem.
And then later on he’s like, we’re going to get these pale faces and he’s like, no offense, Nice little trait of racism there.
And it’s really funny.
But I think like the the bringing together this disparate communities is really where Josie Wales does well and not necessarily hinging on the revenge piece.
47:26
Think that’s sort of like a side note and not not really the best part of the film, in my opinion.
No, because.
Captain Terrell, he is weaker because he’s just like he’s there.
They rated, you know, Josie’s, you know, Homestead and he kills his family.
47:48
We don’t get to see him like really actor or MO after like the 1st 20 minutes of the film, after the whole camp fight.
After that.
He’s just kind of, he’s the guy that’s been sent to track him down.
He has like Italian like, you know, like like I was thinking of like he looks like with his hair and his sweatiness, like the guy from the Great Silence, you know.
48:10
Yes.
But he’s not like as menacing or anything because they don’t use them enough.
And Fletcher, Fletcher is basically just like, you know, the guy from, and I’m drawing a blank on his name, but from the Wild Bunch, you know, that used to ride with, you know, because he’s basically doing the same thing.
48:30
Like I wouldn’t do that, right?
The commiseration sort of of like I understand.
Like like like I wouldn’t do that.
Don’t do that.
I like, if you do that, I, I know him, this is what we’re going to, you know, you should do instead because of blah, blah, blah, blah, you know, so like, and he’s not bad.
48:50
He’s not bad at all.
But again, like, his role doesn’t really, you know, Fletcher doesn’t really feel the full effects until like, the end of the film.
No.
And and I actually would say that the end of the film where there’s sort of this showdown, right, with again, Clint Eastwood’s direction doing a very good job of managing sort of the mood and atmosphere of the film in a way that some of the other spaghetti westerns couldn’t do because of their budgets.
49:16
You know, obviously he has a lot more budget here for lighting and cinematography.
He’s more focused on specifically shadows.
You know, a lot of the film is covered in shadows, specifically faces.
These uses top down lighting a lot to sort of cover a lot of the faces of people who are wearing hats on purpose, you know, so you can’t really see their eyes or you can’t see their facial features in that final showdown.
49:45
It’s a great moment where you can’t really see who’s sitting there and then all of a sudden it’s revealed and it’s Fletcher.
And they kind of had this back and forth, you know, they obviously know who each other is.
And, you know, when they’re trying to say, oh, what, what are you talking about?
We don’t know any Josie Wales here is we got a Mr. Wilson over here.
50:03
You know this guy, this guy who looks like he’s.
Just here from the background fucking does the mess.
Oh, mess for Wales.
Yeah.
And you have this kind of showdown where there’s the expectation or supposed to be Josie’s thinking, will Fletcher bring me in?
50:20
When is he going to bring me in?
And I feel like that’s kind of lost because I, I don’t necessarily, I didn’t really feel that at the end of the film.
I didn’t really get the expectation of like Fletcher’s going to bring him in.
Definitely.
It’s more so like, I think because you’ve already seen so much of the commiseration between the two, you know, you’re just kind of inevitable that Fletcher’s just going to be like, listen, I’ll forget about seeing you.
50:43
I don’t know, you know, and that makes sense.
And it’s kind of a feel good moment, it looks.
Great, as you, as you were saying, sorry to interrupt, but that shot the Clinton hands of Fletcher, you know, at the table is perfect.
It’s almost like a fucking anime cut away.
50:59
Yeah, sure.
Because it’s the lighting is like so perfect.
It’s like cutting.
You can only see the top of his hat, like eyes, his eyebrows, his hat and his mouth and everything.
You know, it’s covered by the shadow and it’s like cut perfectly across the screen.
So it’s like perfect, perfectly symmetrical and like as it’s going back and forth as they’re all, you know in the bar talking about, you know, Mr. Wilson because there’s Texas Rangers, they’re taking an affidavit of like the bullshit they’re feeding, you know, them about like, Oh no, he got shot by Foreman or whatever the hell.
51:33
So.
Yeah.
It’s great.
I think what I find really interesting about Jersey Whales that I actually like about it in terms of compare, in comparison to some of the other spaghetti westerns that Clint’s been a part of and other, you know, just in general other spaghetti westerns and westerns is the fact that in this film we do get to see Josie as a person sort of with a bit of an emotional element to him.
52:05
And there’s, you know, again, there is a love interest here in a lot of films that star Clint Eastwood.
He does sort of get a love interest, but it’s like very quick and fleeting.
It’s more like a one night stand sort of thing.
And here it’s more based off of relationship.
52:21
And you do get this sense that he’s going to leave, right?
He’s just, he’s going to leave them behind.
He’s going to he’s he always has to take off.
And there’s this idea of the hero in a Western that has to submit to aceticism, right?
That that they can’t have anything good in the world.
Hold on.
52:37
Was that word you just banning out right there?
Asceticism the the idea that you have to give up like your worldly possessions or any like any acts of of pleasure that you have in the world.
You know, that might be the first time in a couple of months.
52:53
That I got you another word.
Yeah.
With the word we should have like Wile E Coyote, like, you know, with like the Roadrunner, you know, Bing, like anytime you like use a word like and there’s like a sound drop to like let like that’s not just for me, like who’s who’s like running around, like throwing that word around, like, you know.
53:14
I don’t know.
I mean, I was just thinking about it like that is typical of these types of movies that the hero is sort of almost expected that like their entire life has been devoted to like.
And, and it kind of shows that in Josie Wales for like the beginning sequence where he just stands there shooting at a piece of wood until he gets good enough to like, which is great.
53:34
You know, that’s like, that is great because that’s like Shen, like Shen MU, because it’s like, like he’s like Rio.
He’s not like, you know, this happened and it’s not like he’s automatically this bad ass that, you know, can just run out and do this.
53:49
Like he’s you’re watching his training montage.
He’s sitting there, you know, wait, you know, feeling the weight of the gun firing, firing, firing, you know, doing it in both hands and you’re seeing it over progress.
And again, as I was telling you, off air, like it’s especially cool because what makes like least for me the weaponry and stuff that I love during this time period is it’s black powder.
54:16
And like the all the revolvers and stuff like look beefy and great and like like in Red Dead 2, like on on the online, like one of the weapons that they only had online is Navy revolver and it’s like an 1857 like Colt Navy revolver.
54:33
It’s based on, but they’re like, that’s cool because again, like those are cap and ball.
Like yes, they’re revolvers.
You can put six shots in and shoot them, but it’s black powder.
So there should be fucking smoke everywhere.
They’re caps and they’re fucking firing lead balls, not bullets or anything balls.
54:54
So it’s like, yeah, they’re going to be inaccurate as fuck too.
Like so it’s like really cool that he’s got his, you know, 21847 Colt walkers.
He’s got like 6 pistols on them because it’s like yeah, I’m not going to reload these.
Don’t have the time to reload these.
55:09
That’s not how they’re built.
They’re built to get your shots off and switch to something else or whatever the hell.
So that’s like really cool to see, like, you know, see all that so.
Yeah, I mean, I like it.
I, I like the idea that we do get to see his training for sure.
I just, I, you know, that’s again, that’s just another example of like the Clint Eastwood styler, the archetype of the, the, the hero who really can only devote their life to doing these things, to getting better at shooting, to getting better at getting revenge.
55:40
You can never settle down.
You’ve always got to be on guard, You know, stuff like that.
It’s great.
Too, Because like one point that I’ve been harping on off the air and I do want to talk about is like Clint’s sexy as shit, sure.
55:58
And he looks great in this, in his like frail 120 LB body, his big hair, this, you know, scruffy beard and his love the hat, the hats, like the best like hat he’s ever had in a film.
56:15
And he’s just exuding this, you know, like this sex appeal.
Problem is like the films like this, you don’t see the wife, you don’t see the kid.
It’s like, oh, he just has them.
And like when you see Clint, like how Clint plays Clint and is Clint, it’s almost like I want to see the before.
56:37
I don’t believe he’s gotten married.
I don’t believe he’s had kids because it’s like sexy and machismo as he is.
He’s you know, like got like a really like a asexual vibe.
Like I don’t ever like, that’s why I got the end.
56:52
Like with his, you know, Laura, his so-called love interest.
It’s not needed.
It’s not needed at all because he’s like again, and it’s not just in this film, but it’s like in a lot of the like the films, like you said, like with two mules with sister Sarah and other things.
57:11
Like yeah, he ends up with like this one night stand or whatever.
So it’s like, ah, yes, like, you know, that’s a man all right.
But it’s like it’s, it’s like, what’s more manly than being like, I don’t need sex?
Just the way.
What’s more manly than just sitting off contemplating by yourself while everyone else does the work around town, around your, your homestead?
57:29
You know, there’s that scene where he’s just sitting off like basically like flicking grass into the air while everyone else is like, you know, pounding in signposts, building a fence.
You know, everybody’s else is doing all the labour.
Beating, beating the dust out of a rug, yeah.
57:45
Ears, Clint.
Just contemplating.
Yeah.
Yeah, but it’s like just thinking about it, it’s like man don’t touch pussy.
Like he’s like almost like Andrew Tate vibes of like having sex with a woman that’s.
Gay.
Yeah, right.
Like but not like that it’s gay, but like just like he’s so engrossed in vengeance.
58:04
Like there’s two like like a he especially in these types of movies where he’s out like for vengeance, they always have like, you know, the person whose family gets slaughtered at the end.
They have a love interest, but he always comes across because there’s really like when like it seems like like if you know, people like a lot like if you’re like somebody who’s married and you’re, you know, beloved dies, you’re either you’re getting remarried within a year or you’re fucking a widow or till the end of time.
58:36
Sure.
So he doesn’t come across as like the little wife, kids dead.
Time to move on to the next, you know, Right.
Yeah, he’s, you know, like I don’t need that anymore.
The only thing like, and again, like I said, they’re trying to it seems like Clint is trying to get a little bit more range out of himself here and trying to, you know, he does have the tendency here to have a little bit more of a sense of communication with other people.
59:05
You know, especially with Lone Wadi, a little bit more than something like say the, the good Ben the Ugly or, you know, Fistful Dollars where he’s not really a conversationalist here.
He’s got a little bit more, you know, he has a sort of more, a little bit more comedic element to it, especially with the, the the squaw who is, you know, a lot of times the joke is like, she just won’t shut up.
59:26
Like I don’t know what she’s saying and she just wants.
That also great, great.
Like, you know, fucking misogyny too.
Sure.
It’s like fat sitting there and everybody.
Just makes it shut up please.
Like, you know, he’s like, hey, you know, she said we’re going to run into trouble.
And then she’s just fucking going on and on and, you know, talking and, you know Navajo and he’s talking to, you know, Ron White.
59:49
And then he’s just like me.
I didn’t save her.
Keep fucking talking.
Yeah.
I think like they, they’re trying to get a little bit more out of him.
They’re trying to get a little bit more emotional range.
And I think to some extent it does work a little bit.
1:00:05
However, like you said I do, you do get kind of just get the feeling that like because of the way that he’s so focused.
There’s almost nothing, no room for anything else in his life.
And they’re they, they do do a couple of moments where they try to pull away from that, like the time where he’s kind of going to the squaw and then all of a sudden he finds, oh, wait a second, she’s on top of lone Wadi there, you know, like, and he’s like kind of got this great disgusted look of.
1:00:29
What a snook.
I’m just going to Nope, never mind.
I don’t even want to know what is going on under there.
You know, that’s that’s a great moment.
And then the other one.
Lone Wadi, he’s very proud of himself.
Yeah, he really is.
He’s like, you know what?
I’m an old man man, but look at that, I.
Yeah, it’s still.
Work and then the other part is when he’s, you know, especially back at the the homestead with Laura Lee and she’s, you know, she’s like, why don’t you show me?
1:00:56
And they they have this little dance sequence where she’s like, do you know how to dance?
And he’s like, no, not really, because that makes sense, right.
Like that totally makes sense for a person who’s been almost, you know, devoted to just this sole purpose of getting revenge.
1:01:11
They like, no, I don’t really dance.
I don’t really read.
I don’t really do anything but the one the one song that.
He knows is the one that you know, Jamie was saying before you.
Know right.
Yeah, yeah, it’s, it’s.
Which is like, do you know any songs?
And he’s like.
It’s like sad, but you know, funny at the same time.
1:01:29
It’s like sad that that’s all he knows, but funny that’s like, again, this is the person that he is and and it’s hard to kind of see him any other way.
I think that’s part of the reason why Clint Eastwood is so typecast.
It’s like he just has that persona about him that makes it really hard to envision him doing anything else.
1:01:46
Like Can you imagine, you know, Clint Eastwood character just going out and doing some tap dancing or something like that?
I like to kick it loose sometimes just do some tap dance every now and then.
You know, you can’t even have fun while drinking whiskey.
He’s like got to be sitting there with like this dour, you know, sour puss face on, you know, waiting for a bounty hunter to come blasting through the door.
1:02:07
So, you know, again, there is that idea of asceticism.
I think that the outlet Jersey wheels kind of a circumvents that.
The film doesn’t really come to that conclusion, though.
It doesn’t really go, you know, say whether he’s actually going to stay at the homestead or not.
1:02:23
You kind of I I presume he does at the end, but I don’t know what did, what were you, what was your take on it?
Because he kind of just, you know, again, it’s the ride off into the sunset sort of thing.
Do you think he goes back to the Homestead with with Laura Lee or is he just kind of riding on his way?
1:02:39
No, he’s dead.
He got shot in the stomach.
True, he could be, he could be dead, but I also leave it.
But no, I don’t either.
But you know, especially because he arrives from town and back and, you know, like takes to like the end.
He’s like, you know, bleeding blah.
1:02:55
Bleeding out, yeah.
I don’t know, I, I think it’s like it’s I, I’d like to believe he went back, but like it’s ambiguous enough because like, you know, I mean, he’s so ornery and uncommittal to things because, you know, his, you know, life in Missouri was upended and ruined.
1:03:17
You know, will, can he learn to love again?
I don’t think he isn’t.
Like I said, he doesn’t seem to type.
And you know, like I said, that’s why I like the whole he he, he, he with with Laura, just like, you know, comes across as, you know, force because it’s.
1:03:33
Yeah, sort of unnecessary.
You know the reasoning being they were sleeping with each other at the time.
So in real life.
But I mean, but it’s, yeah, I think, you know, it’s could be either way.
And yeah, it’d be, it’d be funny to see him like, yeah, we’re going down to Mexico with Fletcher.
1:03:53
Let’s go and look for this.
We’re going to go and look for this asshole Josie Wales, you know?
What do you what do you think about the the shootouts and stuff in this meeting?
How’s that Blocked Has the the action choreography great.
Absolutely great.
1:04:11
Some of the best, like gunfights you’ll see in a Western.
The opening with the whole, you know, Union camp and the Gatling gun and fucking amazing.
Just, you know, I mean a little James Bondi and the fact that like fucking Josie’s, you know, in a fucking tent, it’s on fire.
1:04:29
He rolls out and it goes to like another one and starts firing and then somehow sneaks out without anyone noticing, like, you know, but it’s fucking great.
And again, like I said, the fact that because again, of the time period and they get like, you know, almost every weapon in the film is like time accurate, like him running around, you know, with six revolvers, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, you know, great.
1:04:57
And I also like to that they explain like, because they’re like, oh, he’s lightning.
He kills everyone.
I also like that they explain like, because when they’re in that first Texas town and the fucking snake oil man, it’s like it’s Josie wheels.
And then you got the three Union soldiers sitting there.
1:05:13
Like, should we kill him?
Like, what do we do?
And then he kills them and they’re like, yeah, Loranoy.
It’s like, how did you do that?
And he’s like, because it’s like, again, like, it’s not like when you see him, he, he’s, it’s like with like, you know, the good and the bad and the oven, like he’s pulling his gun out and he’s super fast or anything.
1:05:32
He’s like, well, that one looked like he was going to shit his pants.
So I, yeah, that one, you know, didn’t look like, you know, he could pull his gun.
That one looked crazy.
So now he went for that guy first, you know, like, so it’s like, you know, yeah.
Yeah, I think.
1:05:48
That it’s good, it’s good psychology.
Like he’s like giving his thought process on it.
And at the same time, like, yeah, no, that makes sense.
I’m like how this is happening.
Because again, too, when they first show up in Santa Rio and the bounty hunters come and the one bounty hunter comes in and he’s like, you can go home.
1:06:08
You don’t have to do this.
You can go home and just walk on by and forget what happened.
And the guy who goes walks out and then he comes back in and he’s like, oh, yeah, that bounty is $5000.
I’m not going to say, yeah, I knew you probably couldn’t do that.
And then he shoots him dead.
1:06:24
And it’s kind of like this great.
Like, great, though, because it’s like, all right, like, because they, because they mentioned like, Oh yeah, at this point he’s killed like 60 people by the fucking bounty hunter.
And they’re like, yeah, he’s killed like fucking 60 people at this point.
1:06:39
I wouldn’t be going in to be like, I’m going to face you by myself.
I’d be like, you mean like 20 men?
Right.
You’re right.
Yeah, just storm it.
Yeah, like what do you mean like?
Yeah. 50 people.
I do like that idea that he’s not, it’s not like mystical, you know, it says there’s no, there’s no like, wow.
1:06:59
He’s just like has supernatural ability to shoot people.
You know, the kind of sets it up that yeah, he’s practiced.
He’s he knows how to read people and that’s the reason why he’s so good.
And then the fact that, you know, he is a a person that can read the psychology of the people that he’s he’s he’s fighting against.
1:07:24
I think is is really important.
And it kind of sets him apart from some of the other characters that just seem like the ability, like a mystical ability to to be able to kill people.
I think that the shootouts are really cool.
I think that they have a really a lot of great moments.
Again, the direction is really nice, like that one scene where Flint is sort of like way off in the horizon riding over the hill and like, what is that going to do now over there?
1:07:50
You know, like it’s a great shot, you know, because again, the whole idea of like, oh, you want the sun at your back so people can’t see, you know, it’s a nice little touch there, a nice call back, I think.
Things too, when they’re going through like the sand of the, you know, the desert there.
Yeah, we could see that they’re, you know, trotting along to where the sand with the dune is, you know, blowing and it’s going to blow over the tracks, you know, so.
1:08:14
The, the other thing that’s really nice I think is like that ending scene with Terrell where he’s showing off and he’s got it all like 6 guns that he’s pulling out of every pouch on his body and each one of them is empty.
And he’s just kind of like click, click, click, click, click.
It’s, it’s a nice little, you know, it’s a nice little terrorization.
1:08:31
Speaking of terror, one thing that really I thought was interesting, especially towards the beginning of the film where we you have that first opening sequence, is that the film does utilize a lot of like stings in the score that remind of a horror movie at times.
You know, especially like the rape sequence, The the, the the the implied rape sequences of of, you know, a rape is occur going to occur and there’s very, you know, violin based stings that occur to kind of sell that horror.
1:09:00
I thought was pretty cool.
You know, especially when when Laura Lee’s you don’t get him basically all of her, her clothing ripped off and it’s got this like.
Jeff Goldblum was in the background somewhere like, yes, hi, hi.
Hi, hi.
It is kind of like a a nice little like me to ask element to it that they kind of even recognize like, what’s the scariest thing that could happen to you being a lone woman and a group of eight sweaty, hairy bandidos?
1:09:31
Yeah.
Bandidos pull open the door and that’s all that says, you know, there’s no protection there for you, that you’re in danger.
That’s the scariest thing.
I think that’s it’s, you know, pretty nice.
Well, they weren’t going to do anything like that, but when they opened the the wagon and she’s got her out of place, 1977 Farrah Fawcett, hair flowing in the wind, they grew like they lost themselves.
1:09:58
It’s true.
It’s true.
I do I do love to like after they’re getting ripped apart and like you know her clothes all ripped off but she get the rape you know it was stopped and the one guy yells at her as like Clint shows up.
Fix yourself.
Like you said, fix.
1:10:14
Fix yourself.
Yeah, fix.
Yourself because it’s her bare asses out and everything yeah, you know, they RIP, you know, her dress off and it’s just like.
Yeah, and that’s it’s pretty wild part.
Man, I almost, I almost like thinking about it like I almost want to be like put a time period like this way.
1:10:33
It’s like, like you’re riding with 20 of your Bros and getting jacked off.
Yeah.
Or no, no.
Or known the touch of a woman in three years.
And it’s like the one that like you can find you’re like, yeah, like, like all 70 of you’re going to go Google.
1:10:50
Like, it’s just funny to think about.
Like how like, which I meant like, again, like is like, I can admit like, why does that happen?
It’s like hormones, but at the same time, it’s just like funny.
I think about.
Some, yeah, very.
The the worst in humanity, for sure.
1:11:07
Imagining the worst, Yeah.
But it but does make for a nice dynamic film.
So what else?
What else do we talk about that I didn’t cover yet?
Don’t piss down my back, tell me it’s.
1:11:23
Raining.
That’s true.
It’s true.
Another favorite of mine is just when he goes, when John Vernon is getting all worked up as Captain Fletcher and he’s like, he’s a God damn blueberry son of a bird.
She.
1:11:39
Just.
Goes off like that.
It’s great.
It’s a nice little interjection there.
Yeah, I think like we, we covered a lot of it.
I I guess what we didn’t really talk about is what do you like more?
Do you like this more Americanized version from Clint of of Western or do you like the spaghetti Western better or or what do you find is the difference in in the 2?
1:12:04
So are you just comparing this to like Sergio Leone in?
General.
I mean, yeah, like the stereotypical spaghetti western.
Like if they both have like their place, I I can’t like pick one style over the other and especially get into because a lot of the Spaghettis, you know, were shot in 60s.
1:12:28
This is shot in the mid 70s and it’s got like a Hollywood budget.
But again, like Clint’s committed outside of you know, Laura’s fair Fawcett hair to like you know, the make you feel like you’re in really in like a spaghetti western.
1:12:47
You know, in the time period, like every like everything feels, you know, like it looks and feels and has a great I think he does outside of like a Leone, you know, the Leone films, like he’s got a better eye and is able to take those Italian sensibilities and, you know, groundedness and make, you know, an epic, more of an epic out of it.
1:13:18
Because it’s not like every, you know, spaghetti western that you watch.
You know, for every Once Upon a time in the West, there’s, you know, some Django knock off.
So he gives like a nice, you know, this film, you would go into it and you wouldn’t be like, oh, I’m watching it, like it, like it epic Western, but by the end, like it does like kind of lean into that like it like like a like Greek Homer type S.
1:13:52
Sure.
Yeah, you know, and like just like it’s how big it is because there’s a lot here and like he makes how he cat and cap shoot, you know, encapsulates it all is, you know, spot on.
Like like I said, I I have a hard time because again, they both, you know, and they each thing does like their own and has their own, you know, value.
1:14:19
How about you?
Yeah, I don’t really.
Again, I don’t really have a preference.
I think they all do something a little bit different.
Like you said, this one’s a little bit more polished, I think than a spaghetti restaurant at times.
Again, because it does have that.
It is more contemporary feel.
1:14:34
Obviously, like you said this, most of the spaghettis were in the 60s.
It’s just that much later on.
It also has a lot more budget, a bigger, bigger cast and crew and everything else that kind of goes along with Americanized movie making is here.
1:14:53
You know, it’s not like Clint said, hey, I want to make a Western film.
And they were like, well, I don’t really have a budget for you.
So like you’re going to have to work on shoestring here.
They obviously gave him pretty much what he was looking for.
So I think like it definitely has that going for it.
1:15:09
So I think like you said, there’s it’s it’s really hard to compare.
I don’t know that you can necessarily say like you definitively like one or the other unless it’s just a overall preference.
Like, it’s fine if it’s just an opinion.
I don’t know that you can really compare them fairly, though, because there’s just so much different about their, the make and everything else.
1:15:32
But yeah, All right, so let’s give the outlaw Josie Wells a rating.
So on a scale of zero to 10, dulcet, sultry tones of John Vernon’s voice.
Man has a great voice.
1:15:48
He’s got to like, go almost like a Clancy Brown type.
Very deep, yes, you know well.
Well, you know, great, great.
I was thinking, thinking about it.
Yeah, like Clancy Brown, but with a very slight tinge of Canadian.
Yeah, yeah, he does.
1:16:03
Yeah.
Yeah, He’s got a great voice.
What do you what do you give the outlier?
Jersey, Wales.
Given like 8 1/2 out of 10, it’s a damn.
This is a damn good film.
Really good.
I can’t remember if I gave the same score to The Wild Bunch or Napa, or if I gave it a nine.
1:16:28
Either way, it’s interchangeable.
It’s this is great.
This is a Great Western and it’s just really engrossing and tells a good revenge story.
And it’s simple to the point, has great action.
1:16:47
Clint’s got a great eye as a director, has really good shots.
And, you know, everyone’s terrific throughout their performances.
The few, you know, small divots in the film would be, you know, the a poor villain and at times, you know, slightly meandering story.
1:17:09
That’s, you know, giving weird lectures, but you know, it’s this is it’s a damn good film.
It’s got a lot of great action in it.
And if you like Clint Eastwood and you haven’t seen, check it out because he’s just doing clean.
1:17:28
Yeah.
He’s no different than like his other roles, yeah.
Yeah, I’m going to agree with you.
I’ll give it an 8 1/2 out of 10 as well.
I think it’s really good movie.
It’s really engrossing for the two hours and 15 minutes that it, you know, takes place.
It’s really, really quite engrossing.
1:17:43
It has AI think, you know, more so is setting it apart from some of the other films, like with the Man With No Name trilogy.
It definitely has a more robust cast to it as well to kind of give Clint Eastwood some foil, you know, especially considering he’s, like I said, he’s kind of got a ragamuffin team going on.
1:18:02
I think that where it works to the film’s advantage, you know, instead of relying completely on Clint, it kind of gets mileage out of some other characters as well.
But again, Clint is really doing his part as the exact type of person that you would expect, which works really well too.
1:18:20
The gunfights are great.
You know, it’s it’s got definitely the action that you’re expecting.
You know, again, I think that the revenge piece is probably not the film’s strongest suit.
I think it’s just more so the the fact that it kind of has this very interesting dynamic with the other characters that kind of sets it apart.
1:18:38
Like you said, almost a libertarian esque, you know, political spectrum of saying like, we look, we don’t need the government, we can just do our own thing and, you know, it’ll work out just fine.
But I think like from that perspective, no, I don’t like line with libertarian values.
1:18:55
I can understand, especially during this time period.
While you may might do that, and I think the film makes a good case to that point in a lot of ways.
Again, one of my my main complaints is that the you know, the the pursuing union members kind of drop out for a little bit and that’s sort of feels like it gets lost in the shuffle.
1:19:14
And the whole Confederacy was just a group of quiet individuals who are trying to live their life is sort of a mincing the the the idea of the Civil War a little bit.
But you know, again, at the end of the day, I was able to overlook that is sort of just a specific impetus for for Clint Eastwood’s character and not necessarily like an individualist perspective of the Confederacy.
1:19:44
I, I guess so with that, I, I, I really like the film.
I think it’s a really good Western.
Definitely check it out, You know, especially considering, like you said, Clint Eastwood’s direction is great on it.
You know, a very, very solid American Western.
1:20:00
So 8 1/2 out of 10 for me.
All right, so that, that does it for the outlaw Josie Wales episode.
We’re going to be back again next week with another film in our Westward Ho series.
1:20:16
Again, we’re not going to be in the same era.
I think we’re actually going backwards again a little bit here.
And we’ve got, what, two more episodes next week and the week after.
We got two more for you.
So it should be a good time.
1:20:33
And then we’re going to probably go right into our Halloween episodes.
I’m only assuming.
So we’re going to, we’re gearing up where we’re doing a ton of stuff in, to be honest with you.
We’ve missed out on a lot of stuff too.
That’s in theaters that we really probably wanted to do but just did not have a chance to do.
That happens sometimes, unfortunately, but it is what it is.
1:20:52
We’ll catch them later.
But yeah, thanks for listening to our episode on the Outlaw Josie Wheels.
Hope you enjoyed.
Hope you’re like in Westward Ho Stay tuned all August long.
We’ll be back with more western episodes.
If you liked it, subscribe on pretty much any podcast app you can think of.
1:21:08
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1:21:25
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Again, thanks for listening to our episode.
You know, don’t be like Clint.
Don’t be acidic.
Guy who’s trying not to have any passion in his life.
Go do something fun.
1:21:43
Listen, listen to the gorilla.
Song.
That’s right, feel goody.
No, I feel, I feel good.
Oh, not that one.
Oh, well, yeah, that too.
Yeah.
The the, the actual, I thought you were saying, like the theme with the acidicism.
Don’t.
Don’t be, you know, living a passionless life which feels good.
1:22:00
Which song is better?
I don’t know, I’m not like a huge Gorillas fan regardless so.
Gorillas, Clint Eastwood or Primus’s Lee Van.
Cleef Well, I would probably go with Primus just for preferential treatment.
But yeah.
But anyway, thanks for listening.
1:22:17
Hope you enjoyed and until next time take care.
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