Episode: 372 • Duration: 00:58:54
We’re taking a train going to the bowels of hell – or perhaps just the city underbelly – in our Bobbing for Barker episode about The Midnight Meat Train! While this one’s just based on a short story by Clive Barker, we discuss the ways this one feels very 2000s torture porn – its sterile aesthetic and lighting, to its shiny meat hammer wielded by the villain, to director Ryuhei Kitamura’s flashier action flair.
We’re also drinking Ommegang’s Fest Bier marzen style lager on the show!
Tune in all Halloween season for more Bobbing for Barker!
Hit that play button above to listen in.
Transcript – Bobbing for Barker (2) THE MIDNIGHT MEAT TRAIN (auto-generated)
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0:00
This September, hear the rattling of chains, see the master of illusions, experience the cabal of monsters, the purveyor of pain comes to Blood and Black Rum podcast this Halloween season with Clive Barker’s filmography in thobbing for Barker.
0:22
Welcome back to the blood and Black Rum Podcast.
I’m Ryan from clootfloitation.com and I’m joined with my Spooky Co host Martin.
How’s it going?
What?
Was that one?
Silly Andy Reactor.
OK, still Andy race so the same same idea.
0:39
Yeah, I’m going to have to try to come up with different accents each each episode for our for our Halloween episodes.
But.
It makes sense.
Like if you did like, you know, because we’re doing batten for Barker.
If you did something like, you know, Clyde Barker related, I don’t think he’s got any Draculas, you know?
0:58
No, that’s true.
I’d have to try to be like like, you know, Pinhead or something.
Your suffering will be majestic.
Something like that.
I don’t think he actually says that, but something like that.
It’s really good.
1:13
It was really good.
Once we watch Hellraiser you’ll see that was a pitch perfect Doug Bradley impression.
So.
Yeah.
So anyway, as we you’ve just mentioned, we are still within our Halloween season of covering Clive Barker movies.
1:33
For Bobbing for Barker, a nice play on the apple.
Bobbing for Apple.
Bob Barker?
Yeah.
Or Bob Barker.
Yeah.
We should have just done Happy Gilmore.
Yeah, it’s been fun.
We’ve already done Lord of Illusions as our first episode.
1:50
Yes, Clyde Barker’s Lord of Illusions.
And this movie actually, you’ll note, does not have the moniker at the front of it, at the front of its title that we’re doing today.
So we, we, we have a number of films that we’re doing for Clive Barker.
And I should preface this by saying that, like, Clyde Barker only really directed 3 movies at, you know, as a particular director.
2:11
So not all of the movies that we’re doing are ones that he was like, directly involved with.
So that’s a good preface for this movie because he wasn’t really directly involved in the making of this movie.
He wrote the short story that this movie is based on, and he is listed as a producer, not executive producer.
2:29
Right.
Exactly.
Yeah.
I was going to say it’s amazing.
One of the 12.
I think that was more like, you better put my name on it or else, you know, you’re not getting the rights to the story sort of thing.
And not really like a specific production credit where he was actually actively working on the film.
2:48
I feel like at this point in time, Clyde Barker was really not that interested in making movies anymore of his works.
And so this is more of an independent, you know, rights thing that Lionsgate came up with and, and, and released instead of a specific, you know, impetus from Clyde Barker to make the movie.
3:12
And this is actually going to be one of the handful couple of films that we do that’s more contemporary.
This one was released in 2008.
So in the heyday of when we were in high school, college slash college, and probably in particular at at at a point where we were pretty actively going to see movies in movie theaters at that time.
3:36
I remember going to see many a film around this period of time.
One that stands out to me that we that we did like not recently, but a few few years ago was the Nightmare on Elm Street remake, which came out probably around the same time.
3:52
I want to say that was 2009 if I’m going off the top of my head.
And we did that like for.
Remake a week, yeah.
Five years ago or something like that, 2010, I was wrong.
I was off by a year.
This movie sits right in that realm.
4:08
It probably even more so than a nightmare on Elm Street remake in a very 2000s feeling movie, a very, you know, turn of the the Millennium style particular visual effects laden film.
4:25
And of course, we’re talking about the midnight me train, which is not in a a non secator or a, you know, play on words.
It is not a porno, although it could be could be a nice name for a porno.
4:42
I don’t know if they made one.
Did they?
Did they make a midnight meat train porno?
Because that’s like a pun in in and of itself that they should have just they didn’t even really need to rename the porno.
They could have just called it Midnight meat train and it and it would have worked.
Mahogany is a local butcher who loves to hang out with his buddies and they like to have a good time on the midnight meat.
5:05
Train Yeah, I probably do not want I’m.
I don’t want this in my search, but I did search it.
I don’t really want it in my search and but.
Is that the actual name of the short story?
Yes, OK.
Yeah, I don’t, I didn’t see anything really quickly without venturing into more unsavory territory at this at this time.
5:27
But you know, they should have got Guns and Roses to do like, you know, Night Train, but instead have it be I’m out of Meat train.
The meat train.
Yeah, I’m.
Out of meat train you want the the midnight meat.
5:43
Not only does it sound like a porno, it also sounds like a Tim and Eric bet.
Yeah, right.
Like a yeah, like quite literally, like there’s just a bunch of on this train.
Yeah, you get on the train and you see, there’s just wow, somebody, some guy is set up a a menagerie of meats on the train and you know, would you like my midnight meet?
6:03
Or like with it being like the like early Obama years that, you know, it’d be like, you know, Slim Jim Mad.
Or something.
Yeah, yeah, right.
Hey guys, you’re at G4 and here come on to the midnight meet train with Slim Jim.
Get all your different types of Slim.
Jims that’s true.
6:19
It does sound like that too.
I I, I, I agree.
I think that’s a good idea.
They should, they should revisit that.
You know, as Clive Barker right now is having sort of revitalization with a new video game coming out for Hellraiser and a couple of new books that he’s putting out.
They should revisit, you know, Slim Jim or.
6:36
Well, right now the LA Knights doing it, so we’re fine.
OK, there you go.
He’s.
He’s a great wrestler.
Anyway, what do you what do you think?
Huh.
That’s his gimmick.
Gotcha.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I have no idea because I don’t follow wrestling.
6:53
So I have.
Well, you should.
I would have no idea about that.
You.
Should you’re a Democrat?
Democrat slow for us?
True.
So what do you know about the Midnight Meat train?
Anything not.
A goddamn thing.
I had no idea this thing even existed.
In fact, the thought that you, like, you were just talking about like, yes, I remember this like fondly next to A Nightmare on Elm Street.
7:14
It’s like where the fuck did you see this?
So you’re saying yes?
Only like in like the world of like Fangoria, like I don’t remember like saying, hearing or saying.
Anything about it possibly at this time I was kind of following like stuff like Bloody Disgusting a lot more and stuff.
7:34
So, you know, it’s this would have been something that they would have really promoted at the time.
I definitely remember it being talked about on horror Spears and stuff like that.
So I guess maybe that’s why that’s something that stands out to me.
7:51
I definitely remember the poster I work to.
I remember that coming out.
And again, you have to remember at this point in time too, I was really just starting out on my my website.
So I was doing a lot of like research and stuff into into horror movies.
So I think it was just probably a combination.
I was saying I could exploitation but no is dead world.
8:09
Correct, the moon is dead world the the site before that, so yeah, you.
Know I I was like, and it’s funny too, thinking about it because it’s like it does have like a cast and like, you know, so it’s you know, I mean grants Bradley Cooper pre Silver Linings Playbook, you know, but but it does so it’s like it’s just funny.
8:28
I think of like, because I feel like as like the young, young lad that I was in 2008.
Like if to hear it’s a film out.
Oh, what’s it called?
Midnight Meat Train.
I’d be like, you know.
8:43
Love it, Love the meat.
Yeah, I I don’t know.
So this is one of those movies that I remember, like vividly, but I don’t.
I never watched it.
I never saw it.
Didn’t forever reason, didn’t seek it out.
Not sure why.
Don’t have a reason for it.
9:00
Just something that I just didn’t see at the time.
But going vegetarian?
Yeah, maybe.
I don’t know, it’s just, but as you said off air when we were talking about it, it’s definitely very softified, you know, at this point in time.
9:16
So I was very big as a franchise.
It it, it definitely has that sort of torture porn aesthetic to it that was very prominent at this point in time and feels like an offshoot of a Saw movie.
And the Lionsgate element helps that too.
9:35
And that it’s just, it feels very much of its time in the scheme of what Lionsgate was putting out at the time.
It’s crazy to think about this kind of era of time where everybody was very interested in like, what’s the, you know, where can we go that is as gory as possible, that can, you know, basically it’ll just like make the audience as squeamish as possible.
9:59
But that was really the extremity of the 2000s era popular movies that were hitting cinema at the time.
And I would say that the Midnight Meat Train falls pretty squarely into that, even though it does not necessarily meet the the criteria of what you would call torture porn.
10:14
And that it’s not really so much about the torture aspect as just the viscera that occurs because of it, because of the the killings.
So we’ll talk about that as we we kind of get further into the film in just to preface this too, I have read the short story that this is based on, which is called also called the Midnight Me Train by Clyde Barker.
10:40
I it’s been literally 2025 years since I read it.
It’s in the first volume of the Books of Blood and I remember being a fairly short and really self-contained short story that is sort of meets the expectation of what you would expect from this movie.
10:58
But the movie kind of elongates the idea I think.
And the short story is a lot kind of a lot more vague and sort of more Lovecraftian or sort of more suspenseful and psychological, leaving a lot to the imagination rather than like what we get from from this film, as we’ll discuss as we kind of move further into our our talking points about the movie.
11:22
But before we get into that, let’s take a break real quick talk about the beer that we have on the show today.
I’ll let you take it away.
You’re the one that did the travelling and the the the excursion out to to find it.
So what are we, what are, what libations do we have today?
Some call it an excursion.
11:37
I call it a war.
Yeah, so we had talked about for the longest time, it’s about like 3-4 years now because we’re in upstate New York, Cooperstown’s only hop skipping away.
11:53
And not only is it home to Baseball Hall of Fame and is the prettiest town in America, but it also has brewery hologang, which makes some of the finest Belgian beer in the world, which we love.
12:10
A couple years ago, they started making an Oktoberfest and we’ve been talking about it on here every year around this time because even though it’s just a hop skip and jumping away, it’s not for some reason not available around here.
Don’t know why, don’t understand it.
12:27
This year there, which they rebranded it to Fest beer instead of their Oktoberfest, which just makes me kind of sad because I mean like it’s not a fest beer.
I wish they would do a fast beard too.
It’d be great.
You know, you get you know, because it’s still immersing the cans like, you know, it isn’t as like, you know, as pretty as like the one of before, like the pretzels more, you know, great value looking than like the other one, an old kid, neither here nor there.
13:03
But anyway, there’s a place out in Saratoga that ended up getting it drove out to Saratoga, got an got a four pack of it.
They I would have bought a case of the stuff, but this is the last four pack that they had.
13:19
So we were just in luck and I’m glad I got it because this is a damn good Oktoberfest emergency.
Very good.
It’s really, really drinkable.
It’s nice and bready, some nice crisp body slate.
13:38
You dough little happiness.
Do it.
It’s everything you want in your mates.
And as Ryan likes to say, that’s.
Right.
It’s delightful and the price point was great too.
It’s only $13 so I wish they would like put it in a 12 pack.
13:58
They don’t do 12 packs, but this is great.
And this is a, you know, you know, they don’t really do German styles at all.
So glad it came out, you know damn well.
And like I said, really wish they would also do a fest beer too to see, you know, like, hey, because I’m sure they could do that too.
14:20
But yeah, if you have it available in your area, get it.
We do Hama gang brews on here all the time and we really haven’t had one that we could say is bad.
So yeah, check it out.
Yeah, this is.
14:36
So it’s interesting because like I like you said, I, I do see that previously Armagang had marketed this as the Octomagang, which I think is kind of a catchy and unique name instead of the what they’re calling it, which is like you said, a kind of a incorrect.
14:57
Yeah, like it’s kind of they’re calling it Fest beer and it’s really a Mertzen style.
And that’s kind of maybe marketing to people who are just like, I like, I like either one of those things where I like, I don’t like trying to capture both people instead of just calling it Oktoberfest.
15:15
And then there’s a vagueness of what does that mean?
So I think like I do kind of wish that we had had the original one that was Octomagang, but this is a really good.
Sorry to interrupt, but I’m sure, I’m sure it’s the same.
But look, I like the can is what I lot really liked about it.
15:32
Like it was just a slick can because it has that, you know, they’re those Bavarian flag colours, you know, the beer and the pretzel and it just looks, you know, so wonderful.
Yeah, I think this is a really good meritson.
15:48
It’s bready, it’s got that nice, you know, maltiness to it that you come to love for my Oktoberfest, you know, merits and style, very smooth, but also sessionable, very drinkable, not overwhelming, but but at the same time, it’s got a lot of flavor to it.
16:06
I think it’s really good.
It’s it’s definitely a style that they’ve met very well.
And I think that, you know, the full bodied flavor really goes, goes together quite well, especially considering, like you said, that Almaging does not really make German style beers that often.
16:23
Although they’ve been trying to outreach because they feel like at a certain point they felt a little bit pigeon holed in that they were trying to stick to Belgian styles.
And there’s a limited amount of those that you can really do.
So they wanted to kind of branch out and do some other things.
16:38
And I think that this is a good example of their ability to do so and do the style very well.
So I’m glad that we found this because again, it’s very difficult to find outside of Cooperstown.
I don’t, I don’t know why, but it just doesn’t really get get around us.
16:58
It was like, yeah, we get everything else except this.
I’ll have the next time I’m at our local beer store.
Ask about that, would you like?
And why?
Just why?
Like why is it just you know?
Why is the distributor not you know?
Yeah, they did.
They’re not, they’re not a fan of Oktoberfest or something.
17:14
What’s going on?
Yeah, I like this style.
I think they did a really good job.
If you, you know, again, it’s not going to like blow your mind like this is the best Oktoberfest I’ve ever had.
But I think it it meets like the absolute criteria of what you expect from American style.
It’s, you know, multi rich, great flavour to it.
17:32
It’s just an overall very good beer and representation of the style.
So definitely check it out.
I appreciate them branching out and doing an Oktoberfest.
And, and yes, we’ll look for next time we’ll look for the Meritsen style fest beer that are Meritsen Fest beer is what’s the next one should be called because they’re calling this one a Fest beer, Meritsen style.
17:53
The next one should be Meritsen Fest beer.
Let me even get away with it.
I’m sure most travellingites you know.
Yeah, I’m just, I’m just joking about that.
I know.
I just like, you know, I all I know I’m telling you right now, I could go for like a nice big soft pretzel right now, some, you know, mustard, some nice beer, mustard and cheese.
18:17
And there you go, spite.
So that’s all you need for Akova.
How about a pretzel bun hot dog?
Oh absolutely, I love pretzel buns.
We’re not even just a hot dog, but like, you know, nice, you know, any kind of Wiener.
18:38
Speaking of wieners, the midnight meat train.
I was going to say we’re not sponsored by them, but Wendy’s has their pretzel bun burger back and, you know, that’s delightful.
So yeah, you know, well, midnight.
Meat train, Yeah.
18:54
So first and foremost I want to say.
What kind of meat?
Well, what kind of meat?
Oh, I don’t know.
I’m going to say some sort of beef or something.
It’s like, nice.
Nice ham steak, Yeah.
I want to say first and foremost that this movie is basically the Hey Arnold haunted train episode.
19:14
It’s all it is.
It’s an adult, which is an Arnold episode.
Which is a terrific Yeah, Hey Arnold.
It’s a great episode, if you haven’t seen it, you should definitely check it out, especially for the Halloween season.
But this movie is basically the same idea.
And it’s probably, you know, like again, I, I say that lovingly because Clyde Barker wrote this before, you know, the Hey Arnold episode released.
19:37
But yes, I am sure, yes, here it was like an, it written in like the 80s, like the early 80s, I think.
But yeah, it’s, it’s basically that haunted train episode is about a train that runs at night.
A guy stumbles upon it and when he gets on it, he ends up in hell, basically like a, a hellish landscape, just like in the Hey Arnold episode.
19:57
And you know it’s.
You should watch them as a double feature.
You’ll find many simulators.
We should do a lot of great hanging Arnold spooky episodes.
Yeah, you could just you could do a whole the.
Headless, you know, the headless cabbie, the real Halloween episode with, you know, Maurice Lamarche doing his great Oyson Wells impression, you know, with the aliens And yeah, yeah, I’m having like, going, yeah, I love the hair.
20:24
Arnold I love the hair.
Arnold Yeah, this movie is very similar to that, but the.
The film for me, and I mentioned it to you, yes, it’s like a mix.
It’s a mix of saw and what like Lars von Trier would do with like the house that Jack built.
20:42
If you listen to our episode with that like kind of like the like Vinny Jones, how he looks and like his, you know, quirks and stuff like, you know, very, you know, similar and the gore too.
20:59
I would say to also too like the gore being more on the, you know, realistic side and that being over the top.
So the Midnight B train is, is A interesting idea, I think.
21:16
And again, we should preface this by saying that Clyde Barker really only wrote the short story is based on.
He’s not really he’s he doesn’t have much to do with the overall film itself.
You know, he didn’t write or direct the actual film.
So he he’s basically just on the outskirts and they’re using his short story as a guideline for where they’re going with this.
21:39
But the idea itself is pretty interesting.
You got a photographer who is in the city and he’s trying to find like the most.
The the, the the.
Detritus of the city, right?
He wants to capture the the dark parts of the city in his photography.
21:55
And, you know, his ultimate goal is to, you know, try to get that in in be the first person to really capture a side of the city that other people don’t see.
Apparently.
I would argue that that’s, you know, generally what people do in photography.
22:11
Like, I don’t know that his idea is very unique, but the film kind of treats it as such.
So it basically treats it as like he’s a this budding artist to no one has ever seen any kinds of photography like that.
I was, you know, seeing the photography that he shoots.
22:27
It’s not that convincing to me.
Doesn’t really, you know, doesn’t it have much to it?
No, it’s even like the stuff that is supposed to be risque.
It’s stupid.
And it’s, it’s like, you know, it reminds me a lot of Diary of the Deadline, my friends being eaten by a zombie, but I can’t do anything because I have to do and record.
22:52
This.
Same thing here.
She’s getting raped, but this is showing the city.
Another thing.
I I don’t, I mean, this isn’t like a big deal, but another thing I don’t like.
I hate when films like what city is it in?
Oh no, the city.
It’s mysterious.
It’s the sauce city.
What’s going on?
23:08
Who knows?
It’s just the city.
I’m pretty sure that the story itself just explicitly says it’s New York City, but this movie has a very nondescript, like it is a city, it is a large city, it has a metro sort of thing going on here, but.
23:25
Make it feel like a city, like in this, the problem like we were talking about earlier in the intro, like it’s sterile.
Like it’s like that mid to late 2000s looking like with the, you know, bright blue and the Chrome and everything.
It’s so sterile.
It’s like, what makes this state feel like a city that’s actually lived in?
23:43
Yeah, and and like the city itself, the the sterileness of it, of the metro area that like that, that blue doesn’t really look like any sort of city that I’ve ever been in.
You know, like the the way that the, the metro is sort of designed.
I guess it’s meant to be just like any city, right.
23:58
The all city is, is it’s nondescript and it it they want you to feel like you’re you could be anywhere.
And this is happening.
But I think at the same time, it does take away some of the personality of a city life that the film is trying to offer up to you.
It’s saying basically it’s saying, look at this, look at this personality of the city that you generally see on the surface.
24:18
But then underneath is this, you know, MC Cobb sort of gritty underbelly that you don’t get to see a lot but actually happens at night time or, you know, whatever they’re trying to say there.
And I feel like that’s at odds with having such a nondescript city that they don’t actually name you, at least if you were to say like this is 1980s New York City that we’re in like that.
24:43
OK All right.
Then we, you know, we, we kind of, you know, Charles Bronson’s walking by us over there.
You know, we kind of have an idea.
He has his machine gun with him too.
You.
Know, yeah, exactly like like that would give you an insight into the city that where you’d be like, OK, yeah, I understand.
24:59
Maybe maybe in an opposite spectrum though.
Like at that time the the complaint was that like, well, the underbelly of the city is now the the exterior, like we’re we’re seeing all of that first hand.
So I guess in that sense, it probably wouldn’t be a good idea to have something like that where New York City was obviously at that time, you know, crime was running rampant.
25:20
It’s more about the the hiddenness of it, but that’s the idea behind the Midnight meat train storyline is that this guy’s searching for the most the darkest parts of the city life and he finds it.
He finds it on this guy who’s, you know, played by Vinnie Jones, who’s just like this, you know, beefy, you know, Liam Neeson and esque looking man from Taken who is just hulking around the city, going from one place to another in his, you know, very up kept suit and tie and then going to a butcher shop, which is a really funny juxtaposition.
25:59
I think to see him like it all get all nice and tidied and he’s like, all right, I’m I’m feeling good, I’m feeling I’m feeling powerful in my suit and tie.
I’m going to go and then get out of that and get into my, you know, butcher’s bib and gloves in the in the freezer section.
26:17
It is a nice like little juxtaposition, but at the same time I think it’s a kind of a fun, funny little, I don’t know, like a view into his lifestyle and the way that the film kind of centers around this person.
They call him Mahogany in the movie, which is again, like, why, why, why Mahogany?
26:38
Like that’s probably, I don’t know if that’s a Clive Barker thing or if that’s just like something that the film throws in for it ’cause I can’t remember if in the short story that’s the actual name or not.
It does definitely feel like a Clive Barker thing.
Like even coming off of Lord of Illusions where everybody had names like, you know, Quinn and it’s, you know, very funny, non realistic names.
27:02
But Mahogany is is a great one for him.
I feel like, you know, again, the the idea here is that you have this really like striking disparity between what you see on the surface for Vinny Jones’s character as this like very put together guy.
27:19
And then he’s going to a butcher shop and then, you know, basically just taking things apart.
And then obviously the whole meat train element which he’s bludgeoning people to death in the most grotesque ways imaginable, aided by CA very very poor CGI20000 CGI.
27:39
Which is unnecessary.
That’s.
One thing that’s kind of bad, like upset, like, like just like, oh, like, you know, it’s like you didn’t even need that.
You like you.
Didn’t need right the excessiveness was this film in.
Three DI feel like, yeah, you know what?
27:56
Because I feel like some of the shots like, especially like the guy getting shot in the back of the head and the way the eye kind of flies, like maybe that’s also, you know.
Now I don’t think it was in 3D, but yeah, you’re right.
Like the definitely the the whole probably first half of the film really seems like it was made in the event that we they might make it a 3D film like and I I think this goes this is something that was standing out to me as I watched the movie is that this film feels like of two parts.
28:28
It feels like it it started out one way and then they went a different direction or something or, or they they had two different ideas and then eventually they melded them together into one.
And I say that because the opening scenes in like some of the the first of horror elements to it, where Vinny Jones is just, you know, finding victims and then beating them to death with his shiny metal hammer.
28:52
Those are super CG eyed and over the top for the first half of the film.
And like you said, it’s super unnecessary to have the CGI.
The film is already brutal enough.
You do not need to have literal computer generated eyes popping out of someone’s head like in a just the most cartoonish fashion that you can think of, because the film already has that violence where it’s really that extremity is super unnecessary and in in the scheme of things.
29:21
And just it actually makes it look very goofy in that first few those first few moments.
And then later on the film kind of takes a step back from the CGI element.
It it it says, you know what, we kind of want to stick to more practical effects here because later on in the film, it’s really more reality based.
29:41
You know, the bludgeonings are just, you know, almost more choreographed in the director of this film.
Ryu Hey, Kitamura has a pretty extensive filmography that involves, you know, action and specifically like martial arts.
30:02
You know, probably one of his most known films is Verses from 2000, which is like a 2000s era martial arts movie.
And he has a pretty, you know, pretty good grasp on the choreography of fight scenes in a way that maybe doesn’t necessarily translate well to a horror film.
30:20
I would argue that this film also employs some of that weird anime esque action stunt sequences later on in the film when Vinnie Jones and Bradley Cooper are fighting on the train.
But at the same time, like I just don’t feel like it needed all the CGI to really make it feel brutal and you know, torture porn esque like that’s that’s kind of indicative of what’s going on without the need for excessive CGII think that is that what you meant as well when you were saying like, you know, it’s sort of disappointing to see that they employed the CGI there.
30:56
Yeah, like, because it’s, they do like a really good job when it comes to like him showing mahogany, you know, butchering and like clipping the hair and the nails and pulling the teeth, you know?
31:11
Yeah, yeah, like that like actually like, you know, the teeth part and mainly like Winston widget in my see, like, you know, ’cause it’s like, you know, yeah, feels real.
Like that’s where like the comparisons, I would say, like like when I was making, you know, the intro, like come with like the house that Jack built, because it’s, you know, got that like, you know, realistic, you know, gruesome in the weeds feel.
31:40
And so that disconnect between like how they, you know, portray that you know, is, you know, it’s jarring and, you know, discerning.
In In the House of Jack Bill has some sort of those same issues too, right?
Like it it does employ a lot of CGI at times.
Like especially with the one of the most obnoxious unneeded things is the blood spatter, which I think is probably shared between the House of Jack Bill in this movie in that the blood looks extremely fake.
32:07
It’s like watery based.
And then when when people get their head slammed in, there’s like a very excessive amount of splash that happens.
That is obviously, you know, computer generated those types of things really stand out as something that’s like, you know, you know, the audience is kind of groaning like, you know, like we did.
32:28
It was that’s not something that we needed.
Whereas like you said, the pulling the teeth, those are all physical and practical effects that work really well.
And so that’s why I say that movie is kind of of two areas here, like where you have a very CGI late in first half and a more practical effects based second-half.
32:48
And it feels almost like the film kind of threw those two things together and they didn’t really, they didn’t come to a consensus on like which one they were going to do.
So they were just like, yeah, you know, this is what we did for for both halves and we’re going to put them together.
What do you think about the whole idea of the the, you know, Bradley Cooper’s character who’s this photographer who eventually just starts following Vinnie Jones character around?
33:13
Like, you know, it’s a he’s the one that’s really ultimately being like sort of a voyeur in the city.
Who’s who’s like, I don’t know, this guy looks suspicious.
I think I’ll follow him around and, you know, get into trouble.
It is kind of a foolish storyline.
33:30
I kind of.
He’s he’s not like interesting enough for like to work like he’s just like such a bland weenie and just like like like like the whole tofu bit.
33:46
Why?
What’s that there for, you know?
Yeah, I mean you’re.
Going to make like, like, you know, I know leaves later on for him to be like, yeah, you know, they don’t mention.
They don’t mention.
I at least I didn’t hear the mention like that he’s a vegetarian or vegan or anything like, but like just when they’re at the diner where his girlfriend works, you know, he’s like cook my tofu.
34:08
He just whips out a slab of tofu and they throw it on the grill.
Yeah, which is which is funny.
Like no one just carries around a thing a a large thing of tofu.
Like like a douche bag and like.
He only got a salad too or something like it’s not like he needed like an another thing of tofu to to add to it.
34:28
It’s like you’re not missing anything.
Other thing too, a couple of customers are there sitting there eating like steak, sitting steak tips.
We’re going to a fucking diner and getting steak.
Tips like a nice, nice rib eye steak at the diner.
Yeah, you know.
Yeah, You know, yeah.
But like he’s just like, he just looks like an early 2000s like putts with his hair kind of spiked and you know, like a Josh Hardnet type and just becomes, you know, obsessed with this story, which it is a fine enough concept because it’s like a tried and true one that would like, you know, I have like, you know, I have to figure it out, but I don’t understand why at the same time, his girlfriend is so like don’t no, stop.
35:16
It’s all just nonsense.
Don’t follow those leads.
Don’t follow that like with the ending.
Like how it all becomes that conspiracy of lizard man.
Sure, like hiding under the city you would think maybe she was tied into.
Right Yeah, it has like this sort of chud based conspiracy theory that hey, actually this train runs, runs underneath where the meat packing plant is and it actually goes to like this area where reptilian people have been living for hundreds of years and we just supply them with meat basically because it’s an agreement.
35:52
We have like a a contract, if you will.
And you know, they they have to supply bodies in order for them and and apparently at a an exorbitant amount of bodies too, right.
Like not it’s it’s kind of funny because the film, the film has like this running serial killer dynamic about it that Bradley Cooper’s tying into where he’s he’s immediately goes to the library and searches Butcher involved in murders or something.
36:18
Because then he pulls up like an 1895 article of another Butcher who’s who is also involved in a murder and like puts it together in that sense.
I can understand the the white, the girlfriend at first being like, what do you do?
Like what?
What possessed you to go to the library in search?
36:34
Like the archives from 1800s?
You know, Like why?
Why was that the first thought I didn’t.
Just put in Butcher and.
Yeah, yeah, that is that wouldn’t like made me laugh a little bit because I was like, I’m not really quite sure why that would have been the first thing that that came up for him.
36:53
But anyway, like there’s he, he kind of does this whole like, you know, Charlie from it’s always sunny thing where he puts a board up and he’s going nuts about like, I found it.
I found everything.
I, I know the secrets of the city now, like look at this, this pin board of, you know, hundreds of murders.
37:10
And, and, you know, it’s kind of funny because there had to have been like, not just hundreds of murders, like hundreds of thousands of murders based on the, the trajectory of what we’re seeing in this movie of like how many people are being murdered at any one time to, to really, you know, where you’d think like, you know, even somebody else outside of the city, like another, you know, government source or something, the FBI who is not involved in this conspiracy theory of reptile men would come in and be like, what the fuck’s going on in here?
37:41
Like, like, you know, if we’re talking like Rudy Giuliani, what is going on?
Why are there so many murders under your watch that you know, like thousands of deaths here on on the, the subway that were no one’s reporting to us.
But like, it’s a it’s an interesting idea.
And I actually, I forgot when it because I had read this story like 20 years ago.
38:00
I I forgot that if this was actually literal or figurative, like where it, you know, if it was left more vague in the sense that like there may be, you know, beings underneath the city in sort of a Lovecraftian style way.
But it is actually in the short story too, that it it is sort of a a race that’s been there for centuries and sort of living in tandem with the humanity.
38:26
And I think like in the story, it was a it’s a little bit more, it’s still left a bit vaguer than what the film has to provide to the audience.
Like the audience wants answers in the film, right?
And the the film has a very like tie up in the bow exposition at the end of the film where it literally tells you exactly everything that you need to know.
38:47
Like, yes, there are creatures here.
Yes, we’re feeding them.
Yeah, you’re going to be the the next person who feeds them.
You know, you’re you’re our shepherd here.
But I’ve, I’ve thought that it was maybe a little bit more figurative in the story in the sense that like, yeah, there’s there’s, you know, evil that lives underneath the city or there’s an under seedy underbelly to the city that you just don’t recognize.
39:10
And and you know, your art leads you to those dark places.
I think that’s part of the theme.
But like this film really takes it to its most literal, you know, explicit level that it it’s actually happening.
How do you feel about that?
Like, do you do you like the fact that they incorporated these chud like creatures that are living under the city as like a real thing?
39:30
Or would you have preferred it to be more of like a a metaphor or a symbol?
Let’s find enough like it’s like the films.
I wouldn’t say it’s engrossing enough either way, really throughout to for it to be, you know, me to have like a strong opinion.
39:52
Yeah, it could.
It could be either 1, you know, and I would could accept it.
Gotcha.
Yeah.
It does as I say, like at first.
Like like it like.
Because like, the only hints you really get are him having his nightmares of like, you know, his friends being, you know, put on meat hooks in the subway and these monsters go you.
40:16
Know yeah it’s slurping him up and stuff yeah.
So you don’t know.
So the film’s like vague about that.
And like, it could have been like with like the markings and stuff they got put on him.
Like, you know, they could have like probably done more with that and kind of.
40:35
Yeah, It almost feels like it’s a little bit of an afterthought that it’s going to be him.
Like, I think you can tell that that’s where it’s going, but it is sort of it waits till the very last minute in the film to really drive that home that like, hey, Yep, you’re taking over.
You know, it’s kind of it does that a little bit towards the beginning where the conductor just comes out and like talks to Vinnie Jones in a very condescending way.
40:57
And he’s like, yeah, mahogany, you’re better than that.
Like what’s going on here, man?
You’re not doing very well.
And when he has to blast that dude in the head.
So it kind of gives you that, that inkling that that’s coming, but I don’t know, I, I kind of feel like I wish that it would have done a little bit more to really cement that, that, you know, that that idea that, you know, he’s going to be taking over.
41:20
The other thing that I find a little bit frustrating is like I I actually kind of wish that there was more of a serial killer type investigation that was going on because don’t really get that.
And Bradley Cooper is literally just lurking around very poorly.
Like he is not a good he’s I’m in.
41:37
Well, I’m in.
I’m at the butcher.
I’m at the.
Meatpacking Place.
Here’s me with my camera on my Dick.
Yeah.
Hitman, he is not like you know, he’s not able to just which is also I was cracking up.
Too, Like this is, you know, post 911, Like they’re not going to be letting you just want like, some asshole wander in like every other day.
41:58
Yeah, who’s this guy?
I don’t know.
He’s a new guy, I guess.
Oh, it’s Bradley Cooper.
Oh, OK.
Yeah, it’s all makes sense.
Like it’s just funny and the fact too.
And it’s also like just funny.
Like you’d think like as a photographer, like his camera would be something better than like the equivalent of like a Kodak Expendable, right?
42:19
Like the the black and white.
Sort of like, yeah.
Betty State.
Yeah, yeah, it is funny.
Yeah.
I just know.
Yeah.
No, he’s like.
Kind of like the way he creeps around, you expect like some Scooby-doo music to be playing and like right because it it like.
42:38
Literally throughout the movie, he’s just so bad.
He gets caught like in every scenario where he’s, you know, he’s taking pictures, you know, very obviously at the butcher shop, he’s taking pictures of this dude walk into a hotel room, He’s literally on the train, the last train, and he’s taking pictures of him bludgeoning people to death while he’s like right in front of the window.
42:58
He’s just very bad at this, you know, this undercover stuff and it’s it almost leads to some comical elements to it instead of like, instead of like suspenseful elements where it’s like, will he get caught every time?
You’re like, yeah, he’s going to get caught.
He sucks at this, you know, he’s he’s not very good.
43:15
So yeah, yeah, there’s no there’s no real suspense to it to whether he’s going to get caught.
And I think, you know, again, like I was saying that I think the serial killer element to it is kind of the more interesting thing than just like watching Vinnie Jones like Hulk around and bash people in the head.
43:33
You know, like if it if it gave it a little bit more of a a mystery to it, then there would be, I think something for the audience to really.
Yeah, there’s no suspense.
To it, yeah.
Oh, look.
Here he is.
Meat hammer.
43:49
He’s smashing another guy.
In the head, you know, busting them through train window, you know, stuff like that.
And and I’m not arguing that the film isn’t you know, it doesn’t have a nice brutality to it.
I do think that it you know, it, it’s warranted and it does have like this nice visceral violence to it at times, but I just feel like it doesn’t necessarily add up to a whole lot because you you see it right from the very beginning.
44:13
And so it would be a lot more shocking if it if it took a while for us to really see the the extent of the brutality that we, you know, we get from the midnight me train.
And to be honest with you too, once it comes to the end of the film, like it’s almost like Vinnie Jones is doing the victims of service.
44:28
He’s like, you know, basically putting them out of their misery quite quickly, you know, just a bash to the head like a cow.
And then, you know, you’re you, the rest is done while you’re dead.
So you don’t really care, you know, like the plucking of the teeth and everything that’s you’re dead at that point.
So it’s it’s not like you’re complaining too much about it.
44:45
So yeah, I how do you, how do you like the male?
At being so shiny, like nice and clean every time.
Well, I think it just again.
Goes along with that idea of like for, for one thing, like his character Mahogany is like that’s or for whatever reason, the whole everybody who picks up this job.
45:03
I, I guess I’ll say for a lack of a better word, is like now must take on, you know, Mr. Tidy, Mr. Clean for some reason, like because the end of the movie, Bradley Cooper, as he’s taking on the position, he does the same thing.
He’s got to have this slicked back hair and the, you know, the suit and tie on it must be a something that the reptiles, they, they want to feel like they’re being wined and dined or something.
45:25
You know, like when you get, they get off the train, they’ve got like a maitre-d’ coming in like here you go, Sir, we’ve got a 1984 special on, you know, on tap for you.
And I don’t I don’t know why that’s that’s a big part of the the movie and the the the idea behind this midnight me train.
45:43
But whatever, you know, I guess I’ll go with it.
What’s up with like the little?
Like boils on like his chest that he’s sitting there scalping.
Yeah.
Like the like it’s almost like.
A mushroom like it kind it kind of reminds me like a mushroom.
Yeah, that’s like a thing that I guess is meant to invoke.
45:59
Hey, there’s like these like weird love crafting creatures, but at the same time the film like.
Really does not make mention.
Of it very much after the fact.
And it seems like it’s a missing something missing from the movie, like they meant to say something about it and then they they didn’t come back to it after.
46:17
I think the only other thing that happens is his girlfriend finds the mushrooms and kind of drops them when when he comes back to the apartment when she’s searching the apartment.
But other than that, like, yeah, there’s no, there’s no real development of that, that idea, which could have been cool, I guess.
46:33
But I guess it maybe it’s just meant to be like, hey, over a certain period of time, like you start to start to develop these mushrooms and you’re going to eventually die.
You like, you can’t carry the job on forever.
You got to pass it on or something.
I don’t know.
That’s not really well developed in in whatever scenario they were going for there.
46:53
Yeah.
I mean, I think like the idea itself is pretty good.
I think like the the movie can sometimes come off as a little too goofy, a little too 2000s for its own good.
You know, it it definitely suffers from some of the the issues that a lot of like 2000s era films do suffer from.
47:12
And the sterilness is is part of it.
The the blue lighting, the yellow lighting, all very off putting.
I think at this point in terms of like a palette that people like to look at, you know, it’s not not a very colourful or beautiful looking movie.
47:32
I think like what what do you do you like it does?
It is to say it’s it’s.
Not but it does like the one thing like I’ll say is like the film does have some really good shots in it.
Sure.
Yeah.
Like, you know, some style, you know, some pizzazz, like, you know, the, you know, like downward shots of like, you know, stairs for like the subway that he’d give and stuff like that.
47:55
Looks really good.
And like the having the one like when Ryan got.
Not Ryan.
Ryan Gosling.
Yeah.
Manly Cooper when he first shows.
Up at the you know, B packing plant like hit like, you know, a panning and you’re seeing him in the mirror like, you know, like does have some interesting shots like, you know it does look good on on that front yeah for the cinematography.
48:15
I just like I just you know it’s I think the film could would have been better if it was just probably made a couple years later.
Sure.
You know, yeah, it’s kind of a product of its time for.
48:32
Sure.
Yeah, just to give it some more.
You know, groundedness and style to it that like, you know, the 2000s weren’t going to land.
Yeah, right.
Yeah, I think like, you know, it’s, it’s hard to say too.
Like if if like places like Lionsgate were looking for this too, right?
48:50
Like maybe they were maybe they were expecting a film that kind of looked like this, that was emulating that torture porn aesthetic as hard as it was.
And I think like, you know, again, this film we like I said, Kitamura does bring a little bit to it that, you know, you wouldn’t get from some other types of movies like this.
49:07
You know, it’s it definitely has those martial arts action sequences, for better or worse.
I don’t really like them in the movie, but I, you know, I think it gives it a visual flair that, you know, you you definitely wouldn’t find in like another slasher movie from this time period.
So I think it does set itself out to stand out from some of the other movies, despite the fact that it’s really, you know, trying to sit in the torture porn genre.
49:34
So I like I kind of like that idea.
And I think like at least it has a little bit of a uniqueness to it, unlike some of the other movies that were basically like, this is Saw, but like we just tried to call it something else.
You know, it’s it’s effectively the same thing.
But oh, Saw Six.
49:50
Yeah.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
And yeah, go ahead.
I was going to say, how’d you like?
Because Mahogany’s got that big bag.
The guy walking up and being like, laughs Lacquer Boone’s chocolate.
Yeah, Yeah, it’s pretty.
Funny.
50:05
And then later like later on like.
Kids are coming by asking if he wants to buy some chocolate.
Yeah, and.
Yeah, like again, I guess he has.
He has some sort of ethical, you know, dilemma or something because he’s just like, sure, I’ll buy the chocolate.
50:23
He’s not.
He’s not open to killing kids.
At least it’s only a dollar, too.
Yeah.
I mean, that’s a cheap.
Cheap candy bar or whatever.
Can’t get that today, no.
Yeah, I think.
That’s, you know, that’s awesome.
I would buy for a dollar too, if it were if they were offering me like a Carmelo for a dollar or something like that’s that’s old school prices for candy bars.
50:42
You know, you never see that anymore.
I don’t think you can buy like just.
Candy bars on their own now, like I think every candy now is like a share size king like you know, king size isn’t big enough anymore.
You buy a Twix now on its own, it comes with like 7 Twix.
It’s true.
It’s like, it’s true.
It’s like, I just want to yeah, I’m a tube.
50:58
Yeah.
Anything else that I.
Didn’t bring up that you want to talk about.
Quentin Tarantino’s in this movie.
Quentin Tarantino, Yeah.
The.
Guy that looks like him, yeah.
He can’t convince me otherwise.
Yeah, he did.
He does, definitely.
51:14
The guy with like the really thin but long hair that is standing in the on the subway train?
Is that what you’re talking about?
No, no.
Ted Ramey.
Oh.
You’re saying Ted Ramey?
Looks like Quentin Tarantino.
I got you.
OK, He looks like.
Yeah, that was actually going.
To be our rating scale was is the 00 to 10 Ted Ramey sightings in this one.
51:38
Yeah.
He, yeah, he gets, he gets a little little role here.
He’s he’s playing Randall, but it’s spelled RANDLEI don’t know if I’ve ever seen Randall spelled quite like that.
51:54
It’s very interesting way to spell the name, but it’s funny you have now.
And also Ted Ramey.
Is about to get cooked, it seems like in that because his his buddies like, you know, we’re going to take your wife back and, you know, maybe we’ll have a little threesome there and Ted Ramey is like, no, I don’t know.
52:12
We’re going to get off the next stop here, buddy.
So he’s he’s itching to get cooked in this movie.
But yeah, it’s another great.
I would say another great.
Name too, in the fucking movie Jurgis.
Yeah, sure.
Yes.
I know they keep banning that about like that’s like just some normal name.
52:28
Hey Jurgis, what’s going on?
It’s like who the fuck is?
Yeah, who the fuck is?
Named Jurgis.
Yeah.
Yeah, that is.
I like that too.
So well, and also, we didn’t talk about it, but randomly and for somewhat no reason.
52:47
Brooke Shields is here.
She gets top Billings.
Yeah, I know.
It’s just like it’s.
Like, hey, remember Brooke Shields being in it for yeah, for 5 minutes?
Well, here you go.
She’s number one on the list.
Yeah, that.
Well known thespian and actress.
53:04
You know, Brooke Shields?
Yeah, it’s a little weird.
How how they have her in this film as like, you know, she’s obviously meant to be a the focal point and she’s really not important to the movie at all.
Like if the if Brooke Shields is not in this movie, if that whole sequence with her being his, you know, putting on the gallery was not here, like you wouldn’t miss anything.
53:29
So like, I don’t know quite why it was such an important part of the movie or that why they got Brooke Shields for that specific role, but sure.
They they go with the whole like she likes her men young and like singles don’t mention my that doesn’t go anywhere.
53:46
She like rubs his leg once and that’s it.
Yeah, or like.
You know, like is she they also mentioned well, it doesn’t even men, not Even so much.
So she’s she you know, she’s she’s bi.
Brooke Shields is bi in here.
But not only that though too like.
One thing that I can’t stand is like the whole Ahoy polloi nonsense of like, the these highfalutin art funks when, like, he gives her the pictures of like, show me the real city.
54:16
And then it’s like the one girl getting, like, about to be raped.
And she’s just like, that’s it, holy moly or whatever.
And and she’s he’s like, oh, do you ever say that?
And she’s like, I haven’t said that.
She says whoa, yeah.
It’s just whoa, yeah.
Like, like, like.
54:32
And it’s like she’s.
Like, that’s the real city.
And it’s like, yeah, like maybe we’re.
Just we’re just not, we’re just not well versed enough in in art, in photography.
We just don’t understand.
But yeah, like a lot of the the shots that that I I said before, but a lot of Bradley Cooper shots are just like, you know, like somebody.
54:51
It’s it’s the equivalent of like somebody got in your face during a fight and you snapped a photo of them.
You know what I mean?
Like the the one guys that are in the subway and he’s walking up the stairs and he’s snapping photos and it’s like, that’s not like, wait, stop there.
Wait, all right, so on a scale of 0 to. 10 Ted Ramey sightings what are we given?
55:14
The midnight me train I give it a six.
It’s.
Interesting enough, in spite of us leaning more towards the negative, I do think it’s a fun enough film and like it does have some nifty ideas and is enjoyable enough.
55:30
Like it’s not overblown with the torture porn stuff, which you know, you’ll listen to the podcast, you know, I’m not like the biggest fan of it’s definitely flawed.
It’s that like, you know, no one in here is like a star in the acting.
55:46
It is pretty slow at parts, but I think still it’s it’s got enough there to be enjoyable.
It’s a product of its time.
56:02
I don’t think it’s as bad as people, you know, have made it out to be, you know, post mortem.
I think it’s just, you know, it’s just generic fair.
And, you know, as someone who hasn’t read the short story, I don’t know how you know everything that differs, But I think, again, check it out at least if you’re somebody who likes, you know, slashers and 2000 horror.
56:28
Yeah, I’m right there with you.
I’d give.
It about a six out of 10 as well.
I think it’s an OK movie.
It has some elements to it that really stand out.
Kitamura is actually doing a little bit here to make the film more unique than just the usual torture porn elements, especially considering he brings his sort of action flair to the movie.
56:48
But otherwise, it does seem like it’s trying too hard to incorporate a lot of gore and brutality.
And it seems like it’s kind of of two minds where it wants to have both a very over the top CGI element that that comes off as cartoonish at times paired with a more practical effect and that doesn’t necessarily combine well in the movie.
57:12
And I think that those two seams are really seen very easily when viewers are watching the movie movie.
So it’s interesting to me.
And I think that it, it does spin off the Clive Barker story enough.
But I, I, I think it’s just an overall a, you know, an OK movie.
57:29
It’s not something that’s going to blow people away, but it does have an interesting aesthetic and and, you know, it has a very specific 2000s era feel to it.
But it’s worth watching at least one time just to see what you think.
All right.
That’s going to do it for our.
57:45
Clive Barker episode on the Midnight Me train.
Thanks a lot for listening here, and we hope you’ve been enjoying our Bobbing for Barker series so far.
We’ll be back all Halloween long with episodes on Clive Barker’s filmography, including his writing and directing.
Pretty much every film that he’s been involved in, we’re going to be doing.
58:03
So if you like what you hear, you should subscribe to us on the pretty much any podcast app you can think of.
We’re on Apple Podcasts, our home base at Spotify.
Whatever you use, you know we’re on it.
Subscribe, leave us a nice review.
We have Facebook and Blue Sky.
You can search for us on there Blood and Black Rum Podcast.
And you can also write to us at [email protected].
58:22
Let us know what you like, what you don’t like, what movies you want us to watch and we’ll take that into consideration.
You can also donate to us on our Patreon page.
Anything you donate goes back towards beer, so we appreciate that in advance.
Again, thanks for listening to Bobbing for Barker so far.
I hope you’re enjoying.
Hope you’ll stick around for the rest of the Halloween season.
58:38
As we get into some more Barker movies based on his stories or you know, even ones that he’s directed, we’re going to be doing them all.
So stick around.
It’s going to be a fun time.
Until next time, take care.
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