Episode: 379 • Duration: 01:27:42
We’ve reached the end of our Halloween series with Bobbing for Barker and it only makes sense to cover the ultimate movie in Clive Barker’s filmography, Hellraiser. Since Martin has never seen this, we take some time to acclimatize to the BDSM themes; we talk about Pinhead’s relatively small role in the first film, the David Bowie transformation, and another vodka-swilling woman.
We’re also drinking Hudson North’s Cider Donut, part of their Adventure Series!
We hope you enjoyed Bobbing for Barker and we’ll be back in a couple weeks after the festivities have died down. Happy Halloween 2026!
Hit that play button above to listen in.
Transcript – Bobbing for Barker (9) HELLRAISER (auto-generated)
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0:00
This September, hear the rattling of chains, see the master of illusions, experience the cabal of monsters, the purveyor of pain comes to Blood and Black Rum podcast this Halloween season with Clive Barker’s filmography in thobbing for Barker.
0:22
Hello, welcome back to the Blood and Black Rum Podcast.
I’m Ryan from colesplitation.com and I’m joining my cohost Martin.
How’s it going?
Pretty good that was my that was my deep voice for this episode.
It’ll make more sense once we get into discussion about the movie itself.
0:41
Of course it’s gonna we’ll we’ll talk about that a little bit and why I did the deep voice there.
But yeah, we are back with Bobbing for Barker, the final episode the the the the finale of our Halloween series as we’re come literally coming up on Halloween in just a couple days.
1:01
This episode’s going to release on the Friday before Halloween and it’s pretty cool.
We got Halloween on a Saturday this year.
That’s always a fun time and I took the day off before it.
So I’m going to be having a nice fun Halloween weekend.
You hope.
And I hope, yeah.
1:16
That’s right.
Let’s see what that weather forecast is looking.
That’s right.
It’s looking pretty good, I think, actually nice and fairly warm.
So this Bobbing for Barker series, we’ve we’ve kind of gone through pretty much every Bob Bob.
I do that again, I think I’ve done that before.
1:33
Pretty much every Clive Barker movie that you could think of.
We’ve pretty much done it.
I mean, for the most part, we hit everything that was really connected to him, you know, and then there’s the obvious tangential stuff that’s like, you know, not really based on a short story or, but like characters from it or stuff like that.
1:54
But we’ve done pretty much everything else.
So that kind of leaves us with only one option for the last episode.
It’s pretty apparent that we have not done it before, and we’ve talked about it that Martin has never seen it.
So that makes it even more obvious that we just had to do this one.
2:10
For the final episode, we’re obviously talking about 1987’s Hellraiser.
There’s Clive Barker.
Tell me.
Clive Barker.
Yeah, that’s true.
Clive Barker.
Sell a razor.
He’s got it.
He’s got his name plastered right on it.
Because this is the first directorial production that he’s worked on.
2:30
Specifically contributing both script and direction on this was, you know, we kind of talked about this as we hit a lot of the movies previously, but this is the one where Clive said, you know what?
Doing it myself and handle everything.
2:47
It’s very surprising you haven’t seen this movie.
I’m not sure how you kind of went through life without at least experiencing it once, like even on TV, because they do play it on TV every now and then.
Especially like on AMC for their Fear Fest and stuff like that.
Surprised you’d never seen it.
What happened there?
3:03
Just never, never came across my path, you know, I never caught it like on TV or, or anything, so.
But you obviously I do have references, right?
Like you sent the SpongeBob part of the, you know, the series where they get hooked and stuff like that.
3:21
You get the references.
Yeah, I got like I know the film and pin head and like that’s about it.
Like something pleasure hooks?
Yeah, you got it.
You you’re basically right on there.
Yeah, listen, I was too busy watching Leprechaun 3 going to Vegas True on UPN when this was on.
3:41
You couldn’t be bothered with couldn’t.
Be bothered with.
The razor when?
Yeah, so I remember my first interactions with Hal Raiser were actually probably in my dad’s movie store.
I do remember him having the VHS is at this.
At that point, they probably would have been up to the third one, I want to say.
4:01
And I remember him having them in the store and being very drawn to the VHS tapes and the artwork and stuff.
I remember flipping it over and actually being quite disturbed by the, the artwork in the back, you know, any of the stills that they had on the, the box.
4:18
So I definitely remember it in store.
It was a while before I actually ended up seeing it, but it’s always been kind of a part of my horror upbringing.
I would say, you know, I.
Do remember I I do also, you know, vividly remember, you know, the like Hellraiser 2 to 5, like box arts, you know, walking by them and being like, oh, look at that, Yeah, look at that.
4:45
He’s a he’s a goofy man.
Yeah, I think you know it.
Again, it’s a striking image of Pinhead with the the Lament configuration, which in this movie is not really named like they just call the puzzle box.
5:02
But in specifically in Clyde Barker’s lore, it would be called the layman configuration.
And I think that it’s, it’s an interesting idea.
And I, you know, the striking imagery, the BDSM imagery that comes across right away on the poster artwork, I think is something that probably has captured a lot of people’s interests just even passing it by.
5:28
And I think that’s one of the reasons why it has been such a successful film and proliferation of a franchise.
Even though I would certainly not recommend going past Hellraiser 3, I wouldn’t recommend it.
5:45
Even though I think Adam Scott is in like #5 I want to say kind of an interesting thing that he he has going for him.
But yeah, I would not recommend the sequels.
There was one year where I was actually working on on close plotation.
6:01
I was working on all the Hellraiser nudity.
So because we do those kinds of posts on close plotation from time to time where I basically I’m like Mr. Skin of the horror movies and sort of compile all of the nudity in movies.
And so I was working on the Hellraiser series.
6:17
And so I kind of at that point, I had not seen the rest of the movies in the series.
And I just went through them, you know, throughout the whole series.
And once I got to, yeah, post three, I was like, holy crap, this is difficult.
This is bad.
Because a lot of them were direct to video.
6:33
After that.
They came way later than Hellraiser 3, which is released in the 90s.
And the rest were kind of like direct to video.
We hope we can revive this franchise sort of thing.
Yeah, would not recommend.
Very cheaply made and and not very good movies.
6:51
However, we’re here to talk about the first time, which is, you know, sort of the the the first part of Clyde Barker’s career where it really took off his working on this was, you know, obviously something that was fairly difficult.
7:10
As you when you watch it, you can see the the sort of atmosphere and the the special effects work that it took to really make this movie is pretty interesting as we’ll talk about later on.
But yeah, I think this was a kind of an interesting debut for Clyde Barker.
7:27
It’s kind of one of his more difficult films in the scheme of like accessibility for one thing.
Like it’s, we’ll talk about how accessible this movie is to like a general population as we get further into discussing the movie, but not just accessibility, just like the, the overall difficulty of creating a film like this and bringing his, his work as an artist and as a writer to life for his own direction.
7:56
This movie movie is based on the Hellbound Heart, which is a short story that Clive Barker wrote.
I don’t think that is part of the Books of Blood, to be honest with you.
Maybe it maybe I can’t remember now, but it was based on a short story and after this Barker.
8:15
Says I was going to say it says it’s novella.
Yes, right.
Which I’m having a problem with because it says it’s 186 pages which makes it a book.
Effectively a novel for for people who don’t read.
It’s a book.
8:34
Yeah, I, I feel like I have read the Hellbone Heart, but I can’t remember it off the top of my head to be honest with you.
And I did not do the research to read it for this one.
So just just so everyone’s aware, I I’m not going to be doing any comparisons to the the novella.
8:50
Speaking of, I was also hoping for another SpongeBob reference.
The Squeaky Boots.
Yeah, Yeah, because it’s Hellbound Heart.
The Turtle Tale Heart.
True, Very true.
That’s right, read that pole.
9:07
One, what was I going to say?
No, sorry.
The the Hellbone heart was the first part of like this the hell raiser series.
However, he did go on to write a number of or a couple of different stories and books that incorporate Pinhead later on after Hell Raiser’s success, which is kind of interesting because like it was a novella, short short tale that really only tangentially had Pinhead.
9:35
And like as we’ll talk about in how Razor Pinhead is not really a primary villain in this movie as much as he becomes a villain later on in the franchise.
And the same is set can be said of the story in that after how Razor’s success, Pinhead became much more involved in Barker’s work to the point where I think even in like the 20 tens era, Barker wrote a book called the Scarlet Gospels.
10:01
And he he put both of his main characters that are popular characters, the guy, the detective from Lord of Allusions and Scott, the Scott Bakula dude and pin head.
And he put them together and they were actually like fighting against each other in that album.
10:19
It wasn’t a good book.
I’ll be fucking very blunt and honest.
It was not a good book.
It was definitely not his best work.
However, interesting idea and I thought I’d just bring it up, but not recommending people read.
Sorry, Clyde, but not your best work.
10:40
All right, anything else to add in the intro because I I know you don’t you don’t got a lot because you don’t have any experience with this film until now, but.
Yeah, I’m going in virginal, you know, fresh eyes.
And that’s right.
I’m trying to, I’m trying to fill, as you know, with because you don’t have anything to add right now and you’ll, you’ll get to it later and you’ll tell us all your opinions about the movie now that you’ve.
11:00
I don’t understand why.
I don’t understand why Warner Brothers hasn’t hopped on the chance to throw Pinhead and as an unnecessary DLC character in a Mortal Kombat game, you know?
That is true, he’s made appearances in other games.
He just recently got a game himself, Hellraiser Revival.
11:21
Anything is called or something like that.
Yeah, there’s a new single player video game.
I don’t know if Pinhead is actually in that game or if it’s just kind of set in the universe of how Racer, but yeah, there’s a new game that just recently released and it’s.
11:38
Supposed to be OK.
Yeah, that’s right.
It’s.
Like like, yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Like, yeah, like not bad.
And then also, you know, he’s also in Dead by Daylight, so, you know, as a as a villain in that one.
11:58
So yeah, you’re right.
It’s interesting that Mortal Kombat was not jumping at the chance like here, Clive.
Here’s some here’s a big bundle of cash.
We’d like to use pin heads like this in this.
It’s one of the say.
It’s one of the one of the things that pisses me off about the newer Mortal Kombat games since from 10 and up they just shot frivolous, frivolous.
12:25
Like because it sells, because people are like, oh cool, I could be Ghostface or like, I could be Jason or, you know, fucking a Zen morph.
And it’s like, yeah, you know, oh, cool, Rambo.
12:42
Oh, cool.
It’s AT 1000.
It’s just like.
Pretty soon they’re going to be adding him to Call of Duty.
Just, you know, like fucking.
Listen, when they when whatever Call of Duty that had like Beavis and butt head skins, I would have gotten that because because the relaunch of Beavis and bud head is so fucking funny, so underrated.
13:03
Like, yeah, before we get into this movie, there’s any of you out there you have not seen the reboot of you Some butt head.
You needed to watch it.
It’s so fucking funny.
It’s so, so, so great.
13:20
I have yet to watch it myself, but.
We’re the first people to ever live in the woods.
But but then we will become strong America.
I’ll have to check it out at some point.
13:36
Damn it, I do a pretty good butt head impression.
Damn it babeless.
Damn it, babeless.
Not bad, Not bad.
Yeah.
All right, Well, let’s talk about the beer that we got on the show today.
Beavis Butt Head, whatever you are.
Are we doing butt Beavis butt head do America?
13:53
Yeah.
That’s a great movie.
It was my turn to get the beer this time, and I didn’t get a beer at all, actually.
Yeah, you fucked up.
Yeah, I didn’t get a beer called Beer Talk this time.
I got a cider.
And it just made sense because like, look, we’ve done a lot of beers on this show for the the Halloween season, but ciders are right there, man, right?
14:15
That thematically, ciders are just as relevant as Oktoberfest and pumpkin beers for the Halloween season.
So we are contractually obligated once a year around this time to do at least one cider.
That’s right.
Yeah, we have because.
14:31
If you live in upstate New York, we get we got orchards everywhere.
That’s right.
So the one that I grabbed, it actually looked really interesting because for one thing, this is kind of a newer local cidery that has sprung up, or at least that we’ve been starting to get around here called Hudson North.
14:54
And that is fairly local to us.
And I’ve had, I think I’ve had one other beer by them or cider by them.
It’s just they’re like imperial cider.
So it’s like, you know, the stronger cider, which I thought was pretty good.
So I saw this one and it definitely looked up our alley for the Halloween fall season.
15:15
It’s called Cider Doughnut and it’s part of their adventure series.
So they generally have, you know, staple ciders that you would expect, you know, like a nice regular cider, like maybe a dry cider, blah, blah, blah.
But they also have this adventure series and I think you said, Martin, you looked it up and it’s like a monthly series, right?
15:33
Like the adventure series is sort of like every month they have a different offering each month.
Yeah, there’s only, yeah, there’s only two that like last for like 2 months bothering that everyone within the series is last month.
It’s pretty cool because it’s gives a lot of variety, like a lot of, you know, mixing and changing up things that you probably wouldn’t expect to be mixed and, you know, changed up.
15:59
So yeah.
Yeah, so I saw this one cider doughnut and I thought that was pretty cool.
Would be right up our alley.
Turns out that I think you said this one was September one, right?
And actually it for October.
They have a caramel apple, which also sounds really good.
If I had seen it, I probably would have grabbed that one.
16:17
But you know, I also love apple cider doughnuts.
They’re one of my favorite parts of fall season as well.
I kind of go ham on them as they’re out.
It’s the best best doughnut.
That’s right, it’s, it’s a it’s a very tasty doughnut.
I will say that I have grown very fond of blueberry doughnuts as well, made with fresh blueberries from what I’ve had from some of our local farm stands.
16:39
But I do also love a nice cider doughnut so it it made sense to grab this one.
So I did pick up cider doughnuts and I’ll let you go first.
I’m curious what you think.
Taking a sip.
I like it a lot.
16:58
Every time we do a cider I always say love ciders.
I don’t drink them that often, though, because I got to really be in the mood for one.
It’s not like in my college days where it’s like not going to drink beer would have wood chucks instead.
17:15
That’s that’s cider for you folks that don’t get it from Vermont.
But yeah, no, this is really good.
I’m glad we’re starting to get them up here because it’s, you know, like even though we have a lot of cideries around here and a lot of different options, you know, really lucky in that regard.
17:34
It’s nice to have because the first thing that kind of came to my mind when drinking this is in my head.
And because we’ve had it on the podcast years and years ago, think it might have been when we were doing our Reanimator series.
We did like the 1911 cider and donut skipping, you know, skip and beaks, you know, version.
17:59
And from what I remember, I remember liking it, but it was like a little too sweet, a little too alcoholic.
This is perfect.
It’s got just the right amount of apple cider sweetness, like the doughnut.
What it’s not overpowering, it doesn’t have because it’s only 5%, surprisingly too.
18:18
So it’s very crisp, very clean, easy drinking, perfect for like nights like tonight where it’s cold to have a fire, like a lot.
I’m really, really impressed by this.
Yeah, I would definitely get bored during the.
18:36
Season.
Sorry I didn’t digest you.
Yeah, I I would agree with that.
I think that it’s a really nice apple cider flavour to it.
I I like, like I said, I’ve I had like the base cider before.
I think they do a pretty good apple cider in general.
This one has a nice amount of like, yeah, brown sugar cinnamon flavour to it kind of brings out this sort of sweet doughiness that you would expect from a doughnut flavor.
19:05
I think that the cider flavor still comes out quite a bit, so that’s really nice.
Like sometimes when you get these adjunct type ciders, you lose the apple cider flavor and in in favor of just like whatever type of style that they were going for.
19:20
I don’t think that that happens here.
You do definitely still get that apple cider flavor and you get the added a lot more added cinnamon to it then you would normally get from a regular cider.
Along with that, you know that nice doughy texture.
I like it.
19:36
I think it’s really tasty.
I would definitely get it again.
I think that as an adventure series, it’s really cool that they kind of jump from month to month and you can expect something different each month to kind of go along with your season.
So I think that’s really cool.
19:51
I would definitely be interested in checking out the caramel apple.
I’m a really big caramel fan.
I’m a caramel apple fan.
I like, I like dipping my apples in caramel.
So again, that’s right up my alley.
I would be interested to check that out if I do find it.
I don’t recall seeing it available, but I will definitely be keeping an eye out for it now.
20:10
So yeah, that’s Hudson N Cider Doughnut Cidery in Newburgh, NY.
Like I said, some fairly close to us, not too far away.
If you do get it out of your way, check it out.
Very cool.
I like the dance too.
I do too.
20:25
I’m going to save this one.
Do you know what’s great about it too?
Like the adventure series part?
Like, like the look of it makes it look like it’s like you’re on like a Catskill hiking trail.
It does, yeah.
Gives you that nice image.
Or no Adirondacks, but, you know, cat skills.
20:42
That’s right.
Yeah, it’s a mountain.
I like the whole aesthetic.
I like it.
It’s, you know.
Some they should reopen the Catskill gaming farm so we can go down and take the kids down there and be like I have a cider while we’re.
There you go.
There you go.
20:58
See, that’s nice little time memory.
There like like you said, not a huge big big cider drinker.
I know some of our friends are like they will specifically seek out cider ease.
I’m not quite to that style, but I am making a cider right now.
21:15
If it, maybe we’ll have it for one of our next episodes because I’m making a hard cider myself just to try it out, I mean.
Ryan’s currently running the gamut through illicit active.
That’s he’s going to illicit.
Well, it is because it’s drinking.
21:32
So like, you’re going to all because you made beer.
Yeah, you’re making cider now.
Soon you’re going to have a whore house and a gamut like a poker den.
That’s true, yeah.
You know.
I’m starting on my.
Growing dope as well.
You know I’m.
Starting on distilling.
21:47
I could have swore.
I could have swore.
Down by the Creek I saw some hoppy fields.
You’re growing it up.
Yeah, just getting into all those types of hobbies.
It’s like, why not?
Why not?
Let’s try not.
Grand Theft Auto, but for.
That that kind of perfectly leads us into Hellraiser.
I’m trying going for the the visceral experiences, right?
22:06
The, the, for me, those are the bounds of list of experiences.
You know, for me, trying weed when I was 30 was like, you know, that was when I really got into the, the hard stuff, the, you know, So yeah, these are the bounds of my experiences right now, but I’m slowly expanding my horizons.
22:32
You missed out on hitting the old sepo around in college.
That’s right, to the dead noodle around for 12 hours.
But in Hellraiser we so that’s that’s effectively what the idea behind the movie is, right?
22:47
So like it starts off and it really starts off kind of abruptly.
It’s like kind of gives you a really quick rundown of Frank who.
Makes me think of like the Exorcist.
Like yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I can see that.
Like like, you know, hey, we’re in a foreign country type thing.
23:05
Look how dirty everyone is because it’s a foreign country, you know, you’re somewhere, you know, like, no, we’re not in, you know, like a place.
She’s like, oh, it’s just like a city, you know, and just like.
People it says it says in on the Wikipedia in Morocco, but I don’t think there was a thing that says like where they are.
23:21
It just seems like another.
Yeah.
This is the great thing about the 80s.
Like another like right next to the gremlins stand.
Exactly, I was going to say.
That too, Yeah, yeah.
Like you know, depending on what store you enter, it could be a fun PG movie with Phoebe Gates or you could be in for bad time.
23:39
Now, yeah, I was, I was going to say that too.
It’s very gremlins like too at the beginning where a lot of the 80s were like, hey, you guys haven’t been anywhere.
This is what it looks like in these hellhole third world countries over here.
You know what I mean?
This is kind of what Hellraiser does too, because right at the beginning you do get this like very nice grimy feel.
23:57
You see Frank greet you over look at his nails.
They’re fucking dirty as hell.
He’s not cut those nails in them forever.
And then you see the other guy who’s selling him the the layman configuration that the the puzzle box and he’s got like literal like liver spotted dirty hands too.
24:16
And you’re just like, look how grimy it is here.
That poor man’s only 23 years old.
Yeah, Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, really ages you over there in those third world countries.
So I do love how some horror movies like this, so they do capitalize on that fear of the unknown, of the strange lands.
24:34
You know, it’s like Arabian Nights over there.
You just don’t know.
What you’re going to be getting?
And you know.
Just you’re off in the distance.
I know it came out like years later but.
Yeah, yeah, it really is.
24:50
And it’s just funny.
Like, again, it just capitalizes on that, you know, the the idea that people watching the movie just have not really, they’re not jet setters.
They haven’t experienced the world.
So it’s like whatever we tell you, Go is here for this Moroccan place.
Why would I go to Morocco Hummus?
25:08
Exactly.
Yeah, yeah, they don’t show that right next door to this guy with the grubby hands is like a nice hummus stand where you.
Can I don’t know if they have hummus.
I, I always say I’m making an assumption here that’s bad on me.
I, I because it’s they’re Mediterranean.
25:24
So like they all have hummus and listen, it’s delicious and.
Grape leaves and such.
So, yeah, but I like that opening.
It’s kind of very abrupt and it quickly brings you into this, this idea like Frank is like searching for this experience, right?
25:43
He’s kind of come to the bounds of where what he’s experienced for pleasure.
The dude is probably been all over the place with a body count and and he’s kind of done with that, we presume.
He’s probably done some drugs.
He’s probably been in trouble, as the his brother will later say.
26:02
He’s like, oh, that’s Frank.
You know, Frank getting into Frank things and.
And at first, I would say at first when like you see like the pictures, I was like, oh, here’s Frank’s gay pornography.
Like, you know, it’s like, because like the way like the pictures kind of look, it looks like, just like hot man sitting down, like, you know, And then it’s like you don’t know.
26:24
It’s like him, you know, clapping around the world.
And right, yeah, it’s almost, it almost kind of reminds of like a sort of like Vietnam style, like, you know, having sex with the locals type thing.
Like it during the Vietnam War, it kind of reminds me of, and like these illicit pictures and like, you know, almost like voyeuristic pictures.
26:49
Yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s it’s like a good setup.
I think the atmosphere is really cool because it it does quickly tell that story in like a very abrupt amount of time.
You know, it’s kind of just probably like a couple minutes really.
And then it just really gets you into that idea of like, he’s opening this box and he’s literally ripped apart to the point where, you know, Pinhead as we he’s not known in this film, but we can call him lead Cenobite if that makes everybody happier.
27:18
He actually picks this column Band discover it’d.
Be funny like if like.
Just keep referring to him as lead cenobite.
Like I don’t know, I don’t know the series, I don’t know what is it?
What do you mean pinhead?
Which also sidebar here, the fact that like, out of all the Cenobites, he’s the one that’s like like actually given words to speak that Clive didn’t think of a fucking some kind of moniker for him.
27:51
Like it had to be bestowed by, you know.
Somebody else?
Yeah.
It’s just like mind blowing.
It is interesting, right?
Like it’s it’d be like watching Halloween and it’s like what’s what’s Michael?
Is that like, no, he doesn’t have a name or he’s.
28:08
I think like it is, it is interesting because I feel like Cry Barker didn’t really think that Pinhead would become a staple point.
It’s more like him just being the head of this particular movie because as well as we kind of have, we’ll talk about as we get into it though, like he’s not really that much in the movie that much.
28:28
Like, like for what you can consider in pop culture as to how Pinhead is sort of proliferated as the face of the Hellraiser series.
He’s not really in Hellraiser all that much.
He’s he shows up probably like what I want to say like 10 minutes of the movie maybe.
28:46
When you really put it all together, he’s not really that big of a deal in the movie.
The the movie kind of explores other things aside from the realm of the Cenobites and the labyrinth and things like that.
That gets explored later on in like 2 and three.
29:03
But like in Hellraiser specifically the first movie, all of that is sort of tangential.
It’s only related to the fact that Frank himself is coming back and kind of reminds me a little bit of how Friday the 13th kind of gets some Co opted into the Jason franchise.
29:20
And in the first movie, you know, Jason was a tangential character that inspired his mother to go on a killing spree, right?
Like it doesn’t have much to do in that movie with with Jason Voorhees specifically kind of Hellraiser kind of reminds me of that same idea that we’ve kind of Co opted it later on to be the Pinhead movie instead.
29:42
But anyway, what I was going to say.
There is a say, but there is a slight difference between that and, you know, Jason coming out of the water at the end.
There’s like the Swamp Thing and then, you know, opening the box and you get like, you know, fucking Pinhead popping out.
30:00
Yeah, no, I do agree.
I do agree he’s definitely in more and and more connected than something like Jason and Friday the 13th.
But it does remind me a little bit of how that kind of came about.
And now, yes, people it’s like in that in scream right when they’re like, oh, and Friday the 13th is killer.
30:16
It’s.
Jason no, it’s not mother.
So anyway, but what I was going to say is the Frank gets ripped apart so much that Pinhead has to pick up pieces of his face that have kind of just like literally crumbled off like a like a yeah, like, yeah.
30:36
It’s like even the eyeball.
Like when you think about your eyeball, your eyeball is a ball.
It’s a literal ball inside of a socket.
But when he picks up Frank’s face, it’s literally like the eyeball is still connected to like this almost like a piece of pie, like the pie crust that’s kind of peeled off the top of the pie, which I always have found kind of funny of like how you that sort of again, obviously this film is not realistic in any capacity, but it circumvents reality by saying like your face can splinter off into just like little pieces.
31:09
Which which I think makes the whole kind of campy cleanness of like how his flesh looks as like he’s re piercing it together makes it work as you know, in fact, because it is so ridiculous that, you know, hooks come flying out and, you know, RIP him asunder and he’s just thrown about the room.
31:35
And yeah, I’d like, you know, I think there where they lean into that.
Like it does work.
Like, it doesn’t make it, I think it’s like more, but it makes it more believable because if you had like this realistic depiction of like his face, you know, being put together, it’d be like, what the fuck’s going on?
31:56
Like, you know.
Yeah, I mean, I think it’s a pretty arresting opening.
It really gets you interested in how Razor as it starts off and you know, it’s kind of this fast-paced lead into the movie and then it kind of takes a backseat again as it almost starts you in a sort of like haunted house type movie, right.
32:16
Like a like a sort of like a ghost movie because it starts off very similarly to any of the kinds of haunted movies that you might think of, from Poltergeist to The Conjuring to anything else like that.
We have a family moving into a new house, or in this case, an old house.
32:31
It’s Frank’s old house and Frank and Larry’s old house, and when they’re moving in, it sort of has this feeling of like, oh, they’re setting up a nice little ghost story.
I think that’s an interesting dynamic in Hellraiser that it does feel a lot like a like almost a supernatural paranormal movie and then sort of morphs into something a lot more physical than just a ghost manifestation.
32:55
It’s.
Not it’s not Amityville or it’s the male.
Exactly, exactly.
I think that’s a cool little way to center this movie around a family moving into a house.
And you’re like, I know that kind of dynamic.
33:10
I know that storyline.
And then it kind of morphs into something different, which is pretty cool.
And then again, it’s sort of uses the tropes of that, right?
Like the attic, the creepy attic is the the main crux of it.
Like so normally in a ghost story, you’d be going up to the attic.
Like I hear bumps up there.
33:26
What is it?
It’s a ghost.
It’s in.
He’s in a.
Blanket I don’t why is he like dressed like a mannequin?
I don’t know, And in this scenario it’s not a ghost, but it’s literally Frank seeping out of the floor and like goopy miasma.
Don’t let the listen.
33:46
The fact that like they’re walking around and he’s like the dad’s life, we’re going to move in.
This is great.
And it’s like this, baguettes and mold and shit everywhere.
And that’s the.
And it’s like, and he’s like, we’ll move.
It’s like we’ll move in on Sunday.
34:01
And it’s like, you’re going to need somebody to like firebomb the house before you even move in.
See, I guess it’s the 80s.
So that’s.
The false positivity of a struggling paternal family figure at work.
Right like that.
34:17
He’s what he’s not telling them all is like, listen, we have to move in here, OK?
It’s free.
It was left to us.
And I don’t have the money for a fucking mortgage right now, OK?
Business is bad, OK Julian, Business is bad.
You’re not working.
All you do is run around in a pantsuit all day, OK?
34:34
Like going to bars?
Pissing a mum man.
Is, oh, we have to move into this maggot infested hole.
Yeah, it is funny because the the false positive Larry walking around and like, yeah, that that whole like mealworm sequence because there’s those definitely aren’t maggots.
34:52
For one thing, if you’ve ever seen maggots, I’ve never seen maggots like looking like those giant wriggling mealworm type things.
But yeah, it doesn’t look like a pleasant place to live normally.
And then you got Julia going around in the background like we had to move, didn’t we, Larry?
35:09
This is better than Brooklyn, Larry.
You have to wonder, like, what the fuck does Larry?
Why does Larry want to keep saving this marriage?
She she’s a huge bitch to him all the time, even like when she’s murdering people and in the bathroom the first time and she’s, you know, obviously having a little PTSD after smashing a guy’s face with a hammer.
35:31
And she’s like, I am sick, Larry.
And he’s like.
Oh, it’s no.
Problem, Julie.
I’ll come back with some brain first of all.
Which is just great because she’s like, I’m sick.
And he’s like, do you need a?
He thinks like Brandy.
And exactly.
You caught that too.
You know, You know what?
35:47
I wish I was so like I got the flu.
What do you need?
Some saltines and ginger ale?
No.
Bring the bread.
Or even like even like sick, like stomach sick.
And you’re like, is this you want, you want ginger ale?
No, I want Brandy.
36:03
Get me Brandy.
That’ll make me feel better right then and there.
You might if you’re, if you’re Larry outside the door, you might be thinking why wife a psychotic person.
She wants Brandy when she’s not feeling well.
She’s she’s just murdered someone.
I know, you know, I need to call the police.
36:20
But no, Larry, Larry’s a nice like almost like, you know, he’s a nice cooked guy.
He’s just, you know.
True.
Just does whatever she wants and I don’t know, I, I feel bad for the guy, you know, especially like later on and what happens to him and he’s literally.
36:39
That’s that’s the moral of the story.
Don’t be a cock.
That’s right.
That’s right.
Yeah.
His brother’s a man, and yeah, that’s what she craves.
And he’s, you know, a little pussy.
Yeah.
What what do you think about that?
Like how do you like the the romance the the the telenovela romance between Julia and Frank?
36:57
It’s fine.
It’s stupid.
It’s, you know, just, you know, like in in a way that only like the 80s can be like, you know, I I’m betrothed to another, but you’re so forceful, but you’re nothing like your brother who’s, you know, a little pussy.
37:18
Take me, you know, well, and then after after, you know, that three minute of, you know, vigorous humping, she’s like, I don’t do anything for you.
Well, you know when a guy.
Shows up with a voice that doesn’t match his body.
You just have to go with it, right?
37:36
Like when he comes in, he’s like.
I’m.
Frank.
You know, and and and and when he’s got a switchblade then he keep popping.
Oh, it’s a bad boy.
You want to see party?
You want to see Party Chick?
See, that’s definitely not Sean Chapman’s voice.
37:51
That is Oliver Smith’s voice as he plays the monster thing.
So I think the the idea behind that was since Oliver Smith was going to play Frank as the, you know, the, the gooped up version of him, they might as well just keep his voice, even though Sean Chapman will be the handsome Frank, you know, the, you know, the guy with the sort of mullet type.
38:15
And he’s got a tattoo man.
What’s up?
What’s up with Clyde Barker and men with tattoos?
Is he hanging out with a lot of sailors back in the day?
Probably Clive is known for being into the BDSM community himself so I would say.
It’s just funny to think about because like, everyone has a, you included, fucking devil worshippers.
38:36
Everyone’s got a goddamn tattoo these days.
And like in the 80s, like if Someone Like, You know, I remember just like 20 years ago when we were in college, they’re like, and we are getting our teaching degrees.
They’re like if you have a tattoo, make sure they’re.
Covered.
Yeah.
God, God forbid the children see with the tattoo on your butt.
38:55
That’s right.
Or, you know, so it’s just funny as a society how we’ve come along, you know?
Yeah, I mean, I think here that’s meant to be like, look how look how far Frank is gone.
Like even even scarifying his body with a tattoo.
39:11
And then that wasn’t enough, right?
Just getting a giant fucking back tattoo and chest tattoo or whatever.
Not enough for him anymore.
He needs to go further and have his body ripped apart by hooks to feel the ultimate pain and pleasure.
39:28
I mean, I do think that’s especially intentional in Hellraiser, right?
The the scarification as of a tattoo as as part of like the pain and pleasure.
A lot of times people do say that when they get a tattoo.
There is a fine line there when you get the tattoo between the pain of it and the pleasure of it and sort of the, the release of endorphins as you get the tattoo.
39:49
It, it certainly does have sort of like this weird scratching of an itch that can sometimes be both pain and pleasure.
I think that it’s obviously an intended consequence of something like Cal Razor where it’s, it’s trying to say that there can be both, right?
40:06
The, the, the barrier between the two is very thin and in your brain, sometimes your brain misinterprets things as painful or pleasurable, depending on the circumstances, though.
I definitely think it’s potential.
But it is interesting to see the many tattooed people that show up in Clyde Barker’s movies.
40:29
So yeah, I think like the the relationship between Julie and Frank is definitely one of those sort of like, like you said, sort of like this rushed 80s romance.
I do think it may be intentional to be a little bit over the top and a little bit ridiculous in the way that Julia’s sort of acts like a fawning little girl over Frank.
40:48
It’s really funny to me when we see her go up the attic and she’s reliving this, the sex scene between her and Frank.
And like when he like what’s the bra strap option?
You know, like actually experiencing it all.
Like it all like was thinking of like when that was happening is when you touch me like this.
41:09
Yeah.
Like.
Different in a different movie.
You might like like Céline Dion talk coming back like you.
Know yeah and then and then but like I think the funnier thing about it is like OK fine like she’s experiencing the you know the the the romance of the situation again but then later on when he’s rough with her and like sort of throwing her around and when he’s like it’s not enough it’s not enough and she’s like Oh no it starts like sobbing like a little bit in in the attic.
41:40
It’s very theatrical.
I like it.
I like it though.
It makes like always makes me laugh a little bit of like have the theatricality of it.
I do think it’s a little bit intentional.
Like it’s almost, you know, supposed to be conjuring this idea of like over the top theatrics for pain and pleasure.
42:00
And again, like the whole idea behind that too, that like the cuckolding is like the fact that, yeah, it is an experience, right?
It’s, it’s something that you maybe never experienced before the, the act of, of cheating on a spouse.
And like the, the, the place that you’ll go, the, the depths that you’ll go, even though you know, you’re hurting somebody that you, you do somewhat love.
42:24
Even though Julia kind of says she doesn’t really love Larry, she doesn’t want to see him hurt in the end.
She’s really hesitant to have Frank actually like suck him dry like a like the spider thing that he does where he sticks his fingers into people and sucks their marrow out or whatever.
So it’s kind of like that, that depth too, of the depravity that you’ll sink to.
42:46
For your players must have had a good must have had, you know, good prenup arranged for something for her to be like I’m going to stick it out.
That’s right.
It’s like, you know, there’s she doesn’t show any care or love for, you know, no, for Hitler at all.
43:02
Like, you know.
She obviously thinks he’s sort of like this milk toast, sort of, you know, weak willed sort of guy, even though like he what he does is pretty much for as like a family man should, right, Like how he treats Kirsty is, you know, it’s like, no, you know, come here.
43:19
You don’t need to even work.
We’ll just let you live in our house and, you know, trying to take care of Julia.
He’s sort of like the the, the epitome of what you would consider a family man type paternal figure.
And yet Julie is like, no, he’s just a chump.
43:37
You know, he’s even though he’s paying my way all the time.
He’s just a chump.
Yeah.
It’s a it’s an interesting dynamic that they got going on there.
So they bring Kirsty in and she, you know, Ashley Lawrence is sort of again behead after this film kind of became the face of how Razor sort of like the final girl for the Hellraiser franchise for a little while.
43:58
You know what?
Shame for her because she’s actually a good actress.
It’s true.
It’s true.
You know, that’s it.
That I don’t know, but that’s like all that’s all her career became.
Sorry for that.
She’s actually good.
You should have escaped like Jamie Lee.
44:15
Yeah, she really, I want to say, did not do all that much after Hellraiser.
Maybe a couple of small like films to kind of show up in.
But yeah, I think really Hellraiser was kind of the the big one for her.
44:32
She would show up in multiple sequels to the film, but yeah, she’s that’s kind of the that’s that’s the the yin and the Yang of final girls, right?
Because a lot of times you’re kind of stuck in that, you know, if it does become a franchise, you’re kind of stuck in that final girl thing where that’s pretty much all you can do.
44:53
And that’s not all anybody wants you to do anymore is show up and be like, Oh yeah, that’s Ashley Lawrence from Hellraiser.
Not that’s Ashley Lawrence from, you know, Academy Award nominated, whatever.
You know, that’s sort of the.
Neve Campbell was lucky enough to have enough under.
45:09
Her.
Yeah, because she did wild things.
So she you know, that’s a.
And party, party of five true What do you.
What do you think about Kirsty though?
And first of all, what do you think about the name Kirsty?
Doesn’t roll off the tongue.
45:25
I’m not a fan, I’m not AI.
Don’t like, even with like Kirsty Allen, like I it’s like, why can’t it be Christy?
I agree.
Gives me a little tick.
Like, you know, someone’s trying to be cute.
Yeah, it’s just that it’s an uncomfortable name to say.
It just doesn’t.
Kirsty, you really have to, because.
45:43
Of the K because of the K IR like like makes you think like Danish like hang.
Yeah, it’s not.
It’s just not a not not pleasant, but anyway.
I think she’s, I think she’s really good.
I love that.
Her hair is amazing.
45:59
Oh yeah, the nice.
Her long curly hair that’s all great I her fat looking great with the white tee and you know the high.
Oh, you like that?
You like that nice like age style?
Oh, she’s looking great.
Do you like the the like the like sort of bowler hat that she wears at times?
46:19
Like the sort of like I’m in the Newsies type.
No, because that reminds me of like the Tom Petty video.
You’re so bad and like.
Yeah, I like.
That like, yeah, like, you know, in New York New you’re like, no, that’s just silly.
But like her running around in her everyday, you know, late 80s where fantastic.
46:39
She looks great and and I do like things, you know, she is a good character.
Like, and by good character, I mean like she carries it because again, like I think the film struggles with like kind of defining her like is she a teen, like, you know, like, or is she like more adult?
47:07
And like, it’s like they want to have like, you know, Clive kind of wants to have it both ways of like, you know, she’s a, you know, bare, you know, barely legal girl.
Is she in college?
Is she still in high school?
Who knows?
But she likes to run around and GoDaddy daddy, you know, I kind of wish like he kind of picked like Lane and stuck to it because it does come off as, you know.
47:37
I can see.
Like Jail Beatty, which again, at the same time, like, I mean, it’s the film’s all about, you know, you know.
Yeah.
Pleasures and stuff, I get it.
But at the same time, I I just think as a character, though, they should have kind of picked one like dynamic for her to kind of make you go like, yeah, she’s like a sophomore in college and that’s what’s going on, you know, or like, no, she’s still in high school.
48:05
And because then you can get like when you get Frank like, you know, being creepy to her, like, you know, with the incest crap, like you’re so beautiful.
It’s just a beautiful girl.
Gotta take this shit.
You know, you can add me even more layers to like that like, you know, derangement if it is like, no, she’s like still 16 or if she you know, so.
48:28
Yeah, yeah, I think that again, sometimes that stuff like the come to Daddy seems like it’s meant to be just like for the sake of the taboo at times, I do feel.
Like I got news for you, if I, if any, like my uncles, when’s one of my sister like come to my come to daddy.
48:50
Yeah, you gotta give me problem.
You know the same thing if you ever saw me over your house.
I’m talking to your kids like come to dare, like Uncle Martin don’t allowed.
To go or like I’m like, he said, some inappropriate.
49:06
Things to have a long conversation with him, like yeah the fuck are you?
Doing I do feel like sometimes it is stretching in a little bit because like again, it.
He also says it to to Julia and it’s sort of like, I guess meant to be like just just a creepy guy.
Like he’s just, you know, overall oversexed and you know, kind of this weird great area of like he wants to fuck just anything, literally anything.
49:32
The rats in the you know, that’s why he’s he penetrates them with the nails.
Those rats in the attic.
He’s he wants to fuck those rats too.
You know, it’ll just anything.
And then you just sort of kind of like the whole idea of like him putting his fingers into things.
And stuff like that.
The film does love fingers and things.
49:49
All the way the one centre bite like fingers.
Yeah, the chatterer stuff in his one gloved finger and non gloved finger in.
Yeah, like his two fingers, like it’s not like he just like, you know, like pointer in middle.
He’s like, it’s like he’s like doing this shocker on her.
50:05
Like, like, you know, like in her mouth, like, you know.
It’s.
Like, like, you know.
Yeah, I do think that’s cool though.
Like I think that’s a like a again, you know, as a, a villain character as like the the Senna bites who are sort of, they don’t really care what’s taboo or not, right?
50:25
Like that’s the whole idea behind them.
I think it’s pretty cool of doing that and just like kind of stuffing it right here, right in your mouth.
I like the idea.
But is this, I’m going to say real quick at the same time, I’m going to give you a little push back here.
Why do you keep calling them villains?
50:41
Because I don’t think, I don’t I, I wouldn’t not call the Senate Bites films.
It’s true.
It’s true.
Yeah.
It’s not really like.
It’s literal like happenstance and other people’s lust.
It’s true.
Yeah, right.
Like, yeah, to call them a villain is sort of also to say that it is something that is unwanted from people who do open the box.
51:07
Because when people open the box, it’s like they really have never did they?
They want something they’ve never experienced before.
And so they’re the.
Gremlins, Chinese guys sitting there going like, you see what’s in the box?
Yeah, you’re right.
51:23
I’m calling them villain for the sake of easiness, but yeah.
No, I know, I know, I know.
But it’s just it’s.
True, though it does bring up a good point.
I mean for for for Kirsty, their villains, because she didn’t really mean to call them.
It sort of fell into her.
And it’s sort of like the the corruption element too, right?
51:41
Like Frank is a corrupter.
He was experimenting and then it ended up going very badly for everyone else that got involved with Frank.
And so that corruption sort of leads her to incidentally open the box and realize I am not really into this.
51:58
Like it’s sort of like the, yeah, go ahead.
As I say, my question for you is, is what happens to Frank with the hooks and him being torn apart?
Is it like that’s what they do or is it like Jigsaw?
Like everything’s like a game and like, you know, it’s takes like they take like what year, you know, pleasures.
52:21
And yeah, I think Greek to create it because I think again, having I don’t know anything about the series and I don’t know where it goes.
But I think like with like a Saw mentality, it’s like you could easily pump out fucking film or film because it’s like they show up and it’s like play a game.
52:41
Sure.
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, I you’re.
Going to, you’re going to.
In in the way.
It’s it’s it’s fall and you want chicken noodle.
Soup.
That’s right, but we’re going to give you Turkey noodle soup and stuff.
I think in the way that Hellraiser the series presents it, it is more so this is how the Cenobites appear.
53:00
And this is like your entry point into what is known as like the labyrinth later on, which you don’t really get too much of in this film.
But that’s kind of something that I’m saying is what what would occur later on in Hellraiser series.
53:17
Here you kind of tangentially see that and what you see is that the like little beast thing that is called the engineer running through the labyrinth.
You know, it’s the guy that’s like 9 feet tall and has like the tail at the top of his head.
And I was like, he looks like an anus, Yeah.
53:33
Like, I love the idea of that engineer thing just being in the walls and just like, you know, running around.
Gathering about like I do, I do love.
That like I, I think that’s a cool idea that really it doesn’t come up all that often, but like there are other things that come up later on in the series that are part of the labyrinth.
53:52
But yeah, that the idea ends up being like, there’s a whole labyrinth in this world where the cenobites come from.
So I think overall it’s not so much like Saw where they do make use of this idea of like, what’s your pleasure or what would be your idea of a pleasure pain situation and sort of do that for each individual.
54:12
It’s more like this this the chains and the ripping apart is the entry point of your soul into this very weird dynamic of of pain and pleasure that is sort of hellishly continuing, continually tormenting and pleasing you throughout.
54:30
And it’s kind of relies on this mystical element of like you as a person never experiencing that aspect can’t really understand it, right.
Like you, you don’t know what it would be like until you’ve actually done it.
And I think that’s again part of hell Raiser.
54:47
And what Frank does is the idea that like, well, I kind of want to understand it and wanting to understand it and then opening a box kind of leaves you in this paradox of like, I kind of like it and now I know the experience, but then I also don’t.
55:04
And you know, the paradoxical nature of it is I think what what kind of draws a lot of people to it, right?
Especially for the BDSM community, there is a paradoxical nature of BDSM, of it being sort of this kink culture of safe play, right?
55:21
Like it’s, it’s, it’s dangerous, but at the same time you do it in such a way that you know it’s fairly safe for you.
And so that paradoxical nature kind of puts you at ease.
You don’t really get that in Hellraiser.
You you kind of open the box and let whatever happens, happens.
55:41
So I don’t know, I think that that’s my explanation for it.
Again, I think it relies on sort of this mystical element that you can’t understand it sort of like a Lovecraftian thing, right?
Like you can’t understand the non Euclidean geometry of Lovecraftian physics until you’ve experienced it.
55:59
You can’t understand.
It sure you can.
It’s called.
Jew.
That’s racism.
Yeah, it’s called racism.
Jew.
What’s that Jew?
I think so like that’s really what I think is really interesting about how Razor is this idea of the pain and pleasure that you can’t really know.
56:22
It’s almost sort of to like the idea behind addiction or heroin that people talk about quite a bit.
The fact that like once you do heroin for the first time, like that’s your, your most immense high, you’ll never get back to that point, but you’re always chasing it.
56:38
You’re always, you always want to get to that high again that you can never have.
And that experiential thing is kind of like what Hellraiser offers to you is sort of like the the good and bad of that experience.
I think that relates to a lot of people in some ways.
56:58
But let’s talk about what?
Because you, it’s you, you, you know, you kind of came at me with an opinion right off the bat that you said it wasn’t a good movie, it was a bad movie.
So I’m curious to know what you didn’t like about how Razer?
Oh, I was being sarcastic.
57:14
Oh, OK.
All right.
You’re just being.
I was, I was being a mud head.
Yeah, I couldn’t tell because I could see, I could see both ways.
Like, like, you know, watching it again today, I can see how some people may not like this movie.
It does have a slowness to it, like a sort of applauding this as it kind of goes through the process of Julia hooking guys and then bringing them back to the the house and murdering them.
57:39
I love the fact that half the time, because she’s fucking 50 lbs, Yeah, with or without the David Bowie make up, like any time she’s hitting somebody with a hammer, there’s still fucking up and running because she’s like, like, you know, can barely hit, you know?
57:55
Yeah, I do like the heft of the brutality of the hammer, especially the first guy where she waxed him right in the fucking face.
Heat and everything.
Or just like you know.
Scattered.
Yeah.
And I was also thinking in my head too, like bang, like The Beatles song, like bang, bang, bang.
58:12
So because it is a because it is a bit like a perfect, like silver hammer that’s just sitting there and it’s like bang, bang, Maxwell, silver hammer.
That’s true.
It’s an interesting idea too, but don’t explain or get into it.
58:28
But again, it’s like, so how did Frank survive?
How did he escape out-of-the-box and why is the blood of people?
What fuels him?
Fueling him and bringing him back to, you know, reanimating him.
58:45
What does it say?
It’s still a cool idea and concept.
Only problem I have with it is the blood half the time looks like fucking paint.
Just yeah, blasted on to the side.
It’s like very goopyish.
Yeah, it doesn’t like it doesn’t look bloody like.
And again, like, it’s not bad, but like just looking at your, it’s kind of like with Dawn to the Dead where you’re like, it’s not, you know?
59:08
I think it’s a yeah.
I think it’s like a in a stylist.
Stylist, yeah, of kind of like.
But it is funny when you know the first time Larry cuts his hand.
Yeah, because when he cuts his finger on that nail, he’s bleeding everywhere.
Like he cuts it like it on his thumb and like in between, which isn’t going to like bleed that man.
59:29
He’s running around the house, blood pouring out.
And you.
Know what the thing that always makes me laugh is like?
All the way up to the attic.
Like scattering blood everywhere.
It’s like, it’s like we are you, my love.
Like a little like a puppy or something like.
59:47
Yeah, like, like it’s.
Just running, running to her and like.
And not the only.
The other thing that kind of pisses me off when it comes to that is they cement like he’s like afraid of blood.
Yeah.
And they don’t do anything else with it.
1:00:04
It’s like, yeah, it’s true.
Like it’s just kind of there, like.
So what kind of makes the whole thing like yeah.
Stupid.
Like, like, like, like.
It’s not like this film’s awful now because of that, but it’s just like thinking about because he runs up and he’s like a fucking kid.
1:00:25
Like like, like when like, you know, you’re when like your son walks and it’s like, what you do, you look down on this guy like just like a little scrape.
It’s not Blake.
Yeah, it’ll be OK.
Like, you know, so like at the same time was just like, OK.
1:00:45
I thought, yeah, I thought it was pretty funny.
I always find that pretty funny too.
It is funny, but at the same time like it’s just, I just find it’s funny that Frank’s underneath the boards and it’s like fucking like Eureka’s castle.
Like the blood comes pouring.
1:01:01
I’m back.
How did it happen?
How do you How’d you get out-of-the-box?
Yeah, the the film kind of shrugs all that doesn’t really explain it too well in how Razer 2.
Also, it kind of does a similar fashion of bringing people back like that.
1:01:22
It’s I think though it does lead to some really great practical effects.
The the whole reanimation sequence of bringing Frank back from this goopy sort of almost like like the idea of it being like a Big Bang esque, you know, from from the cosmos.
1:01:43
Being.
Just sort of like created is kind of a cool little way to do that reanimation style.
And very like Toxic Avenger.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Like like how goopy and just you know.
Yeah, yeah, it’s, it’s a cool.
1:01:58
Like, it seems like just very unpleasant to have had to work with as well, especially in the later scenes where Frank is sort of just like, I’m in a suit but I’m bleeding, like, you know, just like.
For some reason, I’m like, I’m like 60%, man.
1:02:14
But when she kicked me in the balls, it’s still her.
Like, you know, like, like, it’s just funny.
And you’re right.
Like, yeah, well, and then they sue None.
Like, yeah.
Hey, Daddy.
Yeah, I just love that he’s like, you know, he’s pretty much just a guy without skin, just bleeding, eating all over the place, and yet, like, he’s got a white shirt on underneath his suit and like, the suit just standing there with a suit and tie on.
1:02:38
It’s like, first of all, I never want to be in a suit and tie, even when I have to be, right.
Like if I’m going to a wedding, I wait till the last minute to put my suit and tie on.
This guy’s just standing around skinless with a suit and tie on.
You know what me and my buddy used to call ties when we’re getting ready?
1:02:53
Well, he quit the teaching degree and went and saw English lit instead, teaching English.
So junior year, you know, like, because I got yelled at my first day student teaching for not wearing a tie.
And it wasn’t even with kids.
1:03:10
Like, it was like a, like a, like a superintendent’s day.
My teachers are, yeah, I wear tie.
And it’s like, but I’m poor.
I don’t have money.
That’s right, yeah.
Be buying clothes left whatever.
So I have that like, you know, and my family like we always wore clip ONS if you had to.
1:03:27
So I had to like go out and get a Tyler how to tie, you know what we call those things.
Neck nooses?
I don’t know.
Nooses of oppression.
Yeah, that’s right.
And you know what, that’s what they are.
But at the same time, when you look like, when you get a nice tailored suit and everything, you look good.
1:03:43
Damn.
Like, you know, it’s true.
Those nice wedding photos of me at your wedding and all other buddies were looking good, looking sharp.
But anyway, it’s night here.
Yeah, no, you’re right.
Like I would never be Like I’m just colliding at my house and lying around and I’m not, I’m not wearing socks is my, you know, my boat shoes.
1:04:06
But I got tie on.
You.
Yeah, no, it definitely seems like the most obnoxious thing to have to wear when you don’t have skin.
I do like the the the goopiness, though.
I think that it does in some ways make for a really fun and sort of unique style for Hellraiser, kind of compared to something like, you know the thing.
1:04:34
It definitely has like a much more like physical, bodily, you know, bodily matter to it that works really well for like Hellraiser Steam.
So I I like the the physical goopiness of all of the effects in this movie.
1:04:53
I think it, you know, just kind of works for what it’s trying to do.
But yeah, the goopy blood really and the effects really work.
It makes it because again, I think if you were to go realistic with the effects, like today, it wouldn’t like, you know, it’d be more visceral, but it wouldn’t like feel grounded in what Clive’s doing here.
1:05:16
Like it makes it feel like, you know, like a like a tales from the crab, you know, tales from the dark side, like Creepshow, like style, like, you know, Fable entry into life.
And I think too with the Cenobites, it’s great too because it’s like explicit, like, you know, like typical like 80s, like SDM, they’re all wearing tight leather suits with like these weird, like, you know, fetishly bound and gag type, you know, little Knick knacks and stuff.
1:05:48
But like, it’s just funny that they’re all just, you know, like being like, you know, we came from hell and we all wore leather.
No, I think like again, like I think the effects work really well in the film.
I think the, like, cartoonishness of it all work makes it, you know, feel that much more like believable because it makes it feel like you are within the fantasy itself.
1:06:16
Yeah.
What do you think about the the the like the homeless guy that looks like Alice Cooper in Prince of Darkness that shows up here throughout the movie?
It’s kind of a tangential character that sort of every now and then will appear to Kirsty and should be there.
1:06:32
What?
The fuck is that guy doing over there?
And he’ll be eating crickets or something and then, you know, disappear.
He’s like the lost fisherman at first.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, like like, like cuz, cuz this is, we didn’t mention it, but the film is ambiguous to where it takes place.
1:06:51
They talk about how they moved out of Brooklyn and that they’ve gone to like Julia’s home place because she’s angry as she’d think it could be like England.
Chips know that.
But at the same time, it’s like they’re filming a block down from like Spike Lee’s Do the Right Thing because you got like somebody showing up with like a Yankee hair.
1:07:15
They’re all like, like, you know, talking like regular people, not with English accents except like every now and then, like when Kier sees like, oh, you guys are just so polite and whatever.
And they’re like what?
I beg your pardon?
1:07:32
Like it’s just so like.
Yeah.
Please, it, it was like like specific like Yorkshire, then it’s like, OK, we’re here, but they don’t like, you know, that’s something that’s kind of.
1:07:49
Just never really gets into here where it’s talking about.
I agree with that.
I think it’s really left ambiguous, probably on purpose, just to be like, you know, well, the Pandora’s box of, you know, the Cenobites can can find its way anywhere.
1:08:06
And that’s sort of like the idea behind this homeless guy who shows up and is kind of just like watching Kirsty.
Eventually at the end of the film, he turns up, grabs the layman configuration, takes it out of a fire, sets himself on fire.
This is another 80s movie.
1:08:21
Who gets that one dude who sets himself on fire for the movie And then bursts into flames and becomes a skeletal winged creature and flies away with the laymen configuration to bring it back to that guy in Morocco or wherever we’re supposed to be at the beginning of the film to offer it to another unsuspecting person who’s like.
1:08:41
Yeah, I want the I want the works man.
So like is he a Santa bite or is he just?
Yeah, yeah.
This is some sort of some sort of creature of hell that decides that that’s its job to see.
That’s why Gordon’s fish sticks, like sales have dropped dramatically over the years.
1:08:59
Like people, people are like, can’t trust that guy.
I thought we were at Pier 1 Imports.
So many peers in this movie.
I like to that like Kirsty’s like just got a job at a fucking pet store out of nowhere.
1:09:16
And it’s not just, again, because it’s the 80s, it’s not just a pet store.
It’s like got to be like an exotic one.
Like, yeah, this one’s down the back Rd. where you can, you can get yourself a nice fucking monkey, your own cops.
You don’t need no papers.
1:09:32
Just pay $50 and that fucking monkey will be yours.
It’s not like.
Another thing that the 80s would do often is just like, yeah, just down the street you can find your normal exotic pet store of, you know.
It’s one of my.
Crocodiles and things.
1:09:48
You know, that’s one of my favorite parts of Goodfellas and it’s only like great for me and like three other people.
There’s like the scene where like Lorraine Bracco’s like walking and Robert Dino’s like I want to come down here got some nice dresses for you because he’s trying to kill her and like, he’s like standing down the alleyway.
1:10:07
Come on, I got some nice dresses for you down this way.
She’s like, no, that’s OK, I’ll be going.
Come on, come on.
Like, you know, cracks me up every fucking time.
It’s like the same thing.
It’s like, welcome to your local pet store.
1:10:24
We got lemurs and we got, you know, you want a kimono dragon.
We.
Got a giant boa constrictor?
You know.
Constrictor here with the.
Kids just sitting there doing the fucking deuce bigalow.
Like it’s just like, stop doing that.
1:10:43
Stop doing like, it’s just so like, yeah.
Oh, how about how about Christopher Young’s soundtrack?
What do you think about the soundtrack?
It’s OK.
Like it’s not it’s OK.
It’s it’s OK.
1:11:01
I mean, I, I didn’t.
I honestly.
I it doesn’t stick with, it doesn’t stick with me, it’s not.
I’m one of those people that will sit down and just put the Hellraiser soundtrack on.
I I do that every now and then I’ll.
Just I don’t, I didn’t find it offensive.
1:11:16
I just.
I just don’t like recall.
It’s a it’s a pretty for me at least, I think it’s a pretty resounding sound.
It’s got like this nice sort of anti Christianity, sort of I don’t know, almost apocalyptic type feel to it with the strings.
1:11:39
I don’t know, I just I like the the aesthetic of it quite a bit.
I also like again, the film is obviously very anti religious in a lot of respects.
You know, again, the film is called Hell raiser for a reason.
But like besides Christopher Young’s score with that sort of like apocalyptic, almost sort of like anti Catholic score, it also has like a great jump scare, like jump scare from Jesus who just pops out of a cupboard every once.
1:12:06
It’s great.
There’s this two guns walking down the street.
He.
Looks like for no reason you know, say he looks like buddy Christ in this from dogma like.
You know.
Yeah, giving you the old finger bang like Bing bang.
Apparently this movie takes place in the same town as Silent Night, Deadly Night because of those nuns are just, you know, cavorting around.
1:12:27
You know, how how often are you walking down the street and you’re just like, whoops, bumped into two nuns, you know, and I worked at a Catholic hospital.
I didn’t bump into nuns that often, you know, an habit.
So it’s pretty funny.
But I do love like all those sort of like anti religious themes because I, you know, I’m not not religious.
1:12:47
So I am attracted to like the idea of the, the anti religion and how Clyde Barker kind of tries to do the opposite of, of what you would see in like sort of a Catholic horror movie.
You know, something like the Exorcist, which relies on like, how does Catholic Catholicism, we really need your help.
1:13:06
You know, we need the holy water, we need the, you know, the whole 9 yards.
I like that it kind of circumvents that.
Well I’m a good God fearing WASP and I’ll tell you right now, Catholics are not Christians.
They answer to a Pope and papists and Quakers are the worst people on the year.
1:13:28
Find real Christianity known as Calvinism, more Methodism.
That’s right.
Let’s see what else, what else didn’t we talk about that she wanted to, wanted to cover White House didn’t get to.
Julia is David Bowie’s Starman look.
1:13:46
Yeah, I.
Mean the more the more she kills, the more she becomes looking like Bowie.
Yeah, I mean, it seems like it’s supposed to be like a confidence thing, but it’s more like, yeah, a David Bowie thing.
Like the the the the further you get into murdering people, the more you feel akin to David Bowie’s oddness, I guess is strangeness.
1:14:12
I feel really bad for the one guy, the first guy that she killed because he’s like just drops his pants and he’s sitting there with his Whitey tighties on like come on, don’t you move.
The fuck?
It just takes a hammer and bumsman.
Well, he does go a little bit crazy on her at first.
1:14:29
He’s like.
You’re not going to fucking bear a crowd.
On me or he’s sorry, sorry.
Which again, the film could have leaned like into like more nuance, taken like, you know that.
Yeah, the murdering of men who are abusive and sexuality specifically, Yeah.
1:14:52
I mean, obviously the film has a lot of sexual elements to it, you know, again, sexuality being a barrier of pain and pleasure in between, in in, in between is often explored in BDSM.
Yeah, I I heard her president likes nipple fetish torture.
1:15:12
I, I think that again, I, I, I agree with you, I think that the film could have explored more of that scenario of like the pain and pleasure of sex, especially like the Julia, because it at that point it kind of just treats her like, almost like it’s like a sort of brothel type thing of she’s bringing him back and Frank is just using her as a, a tool to, to feed.
1:15:37
I think that there was there could be nuanced there of exploring a more almost more of like a an eye opener for Julia, right, Because there’s really Julia as a character is really is kind of underdeveloped as a person.
1:15:54
It’s hard.
To it’s hard to feel bad for her in her plight because at the end of the day, again, it’s like I’m in America it’s boring here’s me that man didn’t even lick my pussy right He didn’t he didn’t need to he’s.
1:16:13
Yeah, it’s.
Yeah, you know, like, like she’s just like, it just makes her to be like, you know, which again, on the SNL level with like, you know, the Smith said, OK, fine works.
But I think like other parts of the film where they’re going like, you know, again with that first guy being like, you’re not going to fucking change.
1:16:32
I’m sorry, I’m sorry.
Like could have been like, yeah, more exploration to give a little.
To give in and to give that empowerment later on, you know, a little bit more, you know, a better juxtaposition to where she started.
1:16:50
I agree with that.
I also think this film has another one of those things.
Well, it doesn’t really necessarily explicitly say it.
She is probably drinking straight vodka, would you guess?
Yeah.
Wow.
That’s.
Yeah.
This is a yet another one of those movies where you know the woman is like, I only drink vodka straight.
1:17:10
That’s my.
Great choice.
The only other thing I drink is Brandy.
Yeah, when I’m sick.
Yeah, when I don’t.
Feel well God tone it down.
A nice apple space Brandy.
Water.
What are you talking about?
Yes, it’s straight vodka or Brandy, nothing else.
1:17:27
That’s why she was luring back at the bark when you see her drinking and they’re like this drinking alone and they could probably smell the heat off her breath like 5 Bart like stools down like.
Whoa, the vodka is strong with this one, Yeah.
1:17:43
You know, it’s funny too, when the first guy, when he’s like, hold on, go to the bathroom, let the bladder up.
I was thinking because he’s also like, you know, tipsy and drunk too.
Like hold on, I got whiskey down.
Go to the bathroom.
Like, you know, fiercely masturbate until like, I get my, you know, Dick, correct?
1:18:00
Like you know.
Yeah.
All right.
Anything else before we give this thing a rating we didn’t cover?
I think it’s something that’s about it.
1:18:16
So on a scale of zero to 10 Chatterer fingers, do you love that?
What would you give Hellraiser?
Give me 10.
This is easily Clive’s best work, definitely the most fulfilled.
1:18:36
It’s to sing.
It’s got a tight story the effects for the film are really good, well done, disturbing, cartoonish, but they grasp, you know, takes you in the story’s like tight enough to where like it’s in and out doesn’t really linger on anything for too long, keeps the pace moving, keeps you engaged.
1:19:07
He’s got, you know, actors who can do acting.
You know, Claire Higgins is great, you know, actually Lawrence great as well.
Makes you, you know, buy in and believe the story.
It’s well shot, looks great, like the centre bytes.
1:19:26
Their looks sort of, you know, this like bastardization, Lovecraftian SD, you know, you know, bondage aesthetic.
And it works really good.
And, you know, pleasantly surprised by it, you know, because poor Clive’s work.
1:19:43
This entire thing’s been a mix of good and totally bastardized.
So I’m glad I saw this film finally, you know, does it make me want to watch the rest?
Probably not because you can only go down if you got that many sequels out, but not 8 out of 10.
1:20:02
I liked it a lot.
I was engaged and I thought it was a, you know, in spite of some of the flaws we talked about, I, I still think it’s a good, really good horror film.
And I wouldn’t even, I wouldn’t even say it’s like horror.
It’s, you know, like more of a, you know.
1:20:20
Like paranatal mystery, sure, but yeah, maybe I shouldn’t like it a lot.
Yeah, I would give it an 8 out of time as well.
I think it’s a really fun movie.
It’s you know, it’s got this nice specifically 80s feel to it with its gore and practical effects work and the goopiness of it.
1:20:40
It’s very of it’s time that it’s I’m not saying that in like a bad way.
It’s out of it’s time and that there wasn’t really, there’s never been really since this 80s area a really great practical effects work like there was at this period of time.
1:20:59
This is very specifically goopy and gory and the blood and guts that I like a lot.
I think that this film offers up some really iconic elements.
You know, the the centobites themselves are very iconic.
1:21:16
We didn’t really talk about the the designs for some of the other centobites because there’s, you know, there’s four in total.
The chatter is a really cool overall design.
It’s probably my favorite.
But then you’ve got like the one that they called the Butterball Centobite, who is, you know, sort of like fat guy who just literally sitting around like licking his lips the whole time.
1:21:35
Really nice.
And then the the female Scenobite as well.
It’s pretty cool and unfortunately probably should have more screen time than she gets.
She really only gets a little bit towards the end of the film.
But the the whole idea of like the the open tracheotomy sort of thing and sort of resembling almost like a vagina at times and the sexuality of that, I think is a pretty cool dynamic that the film doesn’t really get to explore.
1:21:58
And none of the sequels explore that well for that particular Cinebite.
But the the overall design is really cool, obviously inspired by Barker’s own designs and artwork.
I think, you know, the overall scope of this movie is really interesting.
1:22:14
Like I said, it’s sort of like a haunted house movie that doesn’t end up having a ghost, but something more annoying and obnoxious and frank.
And, you know, the idea of pain and pleasure being the design of the, the Cinebites Hell is a really cool idea as well as, you know, ’cause it kind of makes you rethink the idea of a heaven and hell.
1:22:35
If hell is the idea that you have a pain, painful pleasure or pleasurable pain, is it really a hell like we tend to think of or is it something else?
The only thing that kind of sets that apart is that why would Frank want to escape?
It is sort of the other idea that it may not be as pleasurable as they’re making a sound, but it is an exploration of that barrier that a lot of people have a want to find something different in their life that they, you know, they feel like they’ve experienced most of what life has to offer.
1:23:06
And so they want to find that new new feeling or new experience they may not have had and may not want after they’ve gotten it.
So I like that idea quite a bit.
Again, this is really a movie for the franchise that sets things out, but doesn’t necessarily explore what you might think of as the Hal Razor franchise that really didn’t get explored until the next couple movies.
1:23:32
And this one particularly does not have a lot of Cenobites in it.
So a lot, you know, it’s kind of that whole idea of, you know, misremembering what exactly Hal Razor has.
It’s much more about Frank and his reinvention and resurrection than, you know, the the Cenobites and Pinhead as a whole.
1:23:52
But I really like it.
I think it’s a really fun movie. 8 out of 10 for me.
Glad we got to do it.
Finally, finally getting that one checked off the list.
So pretty cool.
Well, that’s pretty much going to do it for our Bobbing for Barker series and Halloween as a whole for this 2026 season.
1:24:13
Hope you enjoyed.
Did you have a fun time doing Clive Barker movies?
Yeah, well.
It was kind of a mixed bag, right?
The ones he touched personally, they forgot.
Yeah, the ones he did not.
Yeah, most, a lot of times more missed than hit.
1:24:33
Yeah, yeah, I agree with that.
Again, like there was a quite a few movies here that I had not seen, especially the ones that like you said that he hadn’t really touched.
It was just more like he was a producer on it or it was just using his story.
So there’s a bit of a mixed bag here.
1:24:52
You know, it’s that kind of always happens.
I feel like when we do these types of series where we kind of explore A1 particular filmmaker or something and you you experience the goods, the highs and the lows of the filmography.
But yeah, it’s been it’s been overall fun.
1:25:10
These Halloween series like this are always sort of a marathon for us too.
It always feels like, you know, it goes by really fast because the whole Halloween season and we’re we’re recording each week.
So I think we’re probably going to take a week off and then come back after that to do probably 1, like just regular movie and then, you know, maybe a Thanksgiving movie and then launch into our holiday season, so.
1:25:40
What’s this restaurant Finally, Yeah.
I was.
Yeah, maybe.
Maybe.
Lance Waltz You want to watch the band concert?
No, not really.
I don’t really think that would be a very interesting podcast, to be honest with you.
Why not?
Because you don’t like the band and Scorsese.
1:25:59
I don’t know.
I don’t.
I feel like that would be hard to get a good conversation going.
You know, the people who were at that concert got a free Turkey and like, yams and some other things.
Oh, I wish.
I wish I didn’t.
Yeah, just be like, did you like that song?
No, not really.
1:26:15
Did you like that song?
They performed it well.
You can see cocaine off Neil Youngsta knows.
There you go.
Go cracks.
But yeah, like I said, we’ll probably take a break and then come back in another week, but we might have a special, special little something in store.
1:26:33
So keep that in mind.
But we hope you really enjoyed the Bobbing for Barker series, as we pretty much covered every single Clyde Barker’s film that you can can think of.
Pretty much got it with it.
Aside from doing readings of his stories.
I think we’ve we pretty much hit everything that we could.
1:26:53
So hope you enjoyed, you know, again, TuneIn for us as we come back from our break, we’re on pretty much any podcast app you can think of our home base at Spotify, Apple podcast, whatever you use, I’m sure we’re on it.
Subscribe, leave us a nice review.
We are on Facebook and Blue Sky.
1:27:10
You can search for us on their Blood and Black Rum podcast.
You can also find us on our Patreon page.
Anything you donate there goes back towards beer.
So we appreciate that in advance.
And you can write to us at our e-mail address, [email protected].
Let us know what you like, what you don’t like, what movies you want us to watch.
Definitely keep that in mind.
1:27:27
Again, thanks for listening.
Hope you enjoyed our Halloween season.
I hope you have a nice Halloween, good weather for you and everything like that.
Make it spooky and until next time.
Take care.
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