Episode: 364 • Duration: 01:18:30
Celebrate July 4th and America’s 250th anniversary with one of the most jingoistic films depicting the American Revolutionary War, The Patriot! In this episode, we talk about putting the fiction in historical fiction, ponder whether Mel Gibson was right for the job, and feel perplexed about the racial discussion or lack thereof in the film.
We’re also drinking a patriotic Big Sipz, the ‘Merican flavor, weighing in at 16%! Apologies if things get a bit messy.
Approximate timeline
0:00-13:00 Intro
13:00-20:00 Drink talk
20:00-end The Patriot
Come back soon for even more podcast shenanigans. Subscribe on your podcast app of choice!
Hit that play button above to listen in.
Transcript – THE PATRIOT (auto-generated)
Click to expand full transcript
1:09
Hey guys, welcome back to the Blood and Black Rum Podcast.
I’m Ryan from coldswatation.com and I’m joined with my Co host Martin.
How’s it going?
Feeling patriotic today, feeling very festive, Red, white and blue and 13 colonies and all that.
1:28
Is that what there is?
Is that?
Is that the history I can’t remember?
Well, we’re coming up on the 250th anniversary of America.
Right.
Near and dear to our hearts, we are an American podcast.
If you’re listening in another country like, you know, Canada or England or anything, fuck you.
1:45
This is this is our time to shine here as July 4th is coming up soon.
And as we release this episode, it will be just before July 4th.
And so we’ve done a few patriotic episodes before, right?
I think last year we did Uncle Sam, didn’t we?
2:05
I want to say Jesus.
Yeah, I want to say it was last.
Year.
I just said a flash.
Yeah, you forgot about it.
We’ve done Independence Day before as well.
Yeah, for one of our early themes, Yeah, that was Boom I.
Have to maybe repost that one at some point because that’s that’s a quite an old episode and one we haven’t talked about in quite some time.
2:26
So I do remember, you know, it’s like I said, it’s been a really long time since I watched the the movie because it’s since the podcast, I’ve not watched again.
I do remember something about.
Dog you, you remember the dog, not, you know, Jeff Goldblum and Oh my God, that’s.
2:51
Pretty much the pretty much the only thing I do remember is the dog in the tunnel.
That’s what I’m going to do.
I’m going to die just remembering.
Oh my God.
But yeah, serendipitously though, I mean, we’re talking about Independence Day, but we do, I mean, we have a, a movie that relates to Independence Day.
3:08
You know, it’s, it’s directed by the same person, Roland Demerick, Roland Demerick’s.
So like he’s one of those directors.
I I don’t really know, you know, like when you talk about Independence Day, do you immediately think Roland Emmerich movie or do you think like Will Smith movie or what?
3:29
What do you think when you think about Independence Day?
Like does Roland Emmerich come to mind as a roll off the tongue director for you?
Yeah, in the idea of like just shitty schlocky 90s films, like a Michael Bay.
Yeah, yeah, sort of thing, yeah.
3:46
Yeah, the OR or German Michael Bay, ’cause you know.
I think like what you’re you’re getting at is he is one of the people that you think of when you say blockbuster movie, right?
That he, he like the idea of the blockbuster in the 90s and the 2000s was really cemented by people like Roland Emmerich and Michael Bay who are making these really mass marketed giant spectacle type movies that had a very outlandish budget for what you know, what they actually offered and were well regarded and did pretty well at the box office.
4:27
Despite the fact that when you really critically analyze them, they aren’t very that you know, that good of a movie.
They’re the the the idea behind the blockbuster was that it made a lot of money because it was a spectacle for people and not so much that it was like an actual good movie that you would want to, you know, sit down and watch again and again.
4:46
I don’t know, they then that that that probably that might be offensive to some people.
I don’t know, maybe I just them’s fighting words for these people because there may be some people who are just like love these types of blockbuster films and just sit down and be like, you know, anytime they’re on, they probably watch them.
5:02
I’m I’m just not one of them.
I don’t really find I don’t find there’s a big appeal to a blockbuster movie at least.
And we and we don’t have these types of movies right now.
Would you agree?
Do you think that we we’ve kind of gone away from the idea of blockbuster movie at this point?
5:17
I I think the modern blockbuster is a Marvel film.
Sure, yeah.
But I think that would be it because it’s a, you know.
Giant spectacle and you know, would you say that Spielberg’s newest movie that’s coming out or actually I think it is out right now.
What the fuck is it called?
5:35
Disclosure day.
Disclosure day, Would you say that is trying to harken back to a blockbuster type movie?
Well, I have heard nothing about that, so I can tell you.
OK, well then I guess not I.
Think part of the.
Problem too with the blockbuster type movie is that the you know Hollywood budgets have blossomed and have really grown over time to the point it is especially because a lot of that money goes towards stuff like CGI and you know computer computer related stuff.
6:08
So budgets have just sort of exponentially increased.
And So what you used to call a blockbuster is now like, yeah, that’s yesterday’s movie, right?
It’s not, It’s not as it doesn’t mean as much anymore to say like this, you know?
I also think too, they’re kind of falling out because it to have a blockbuster, you have to have something like feel like you’re having fun and something’s worth celebrating and turning your brain off.
6:34
And I think you know, modern American life, you know?
Kind of changed.
That I mean, when I get like, yeah, like in the 90s, you know, hey, you know, Bill Clinton hand job, you know, shoot him out the ass, we’re fine.
6:53
You know, now it’s like who want like, you know, it’s everyone bitching about like the new Batman was 3 1/2 hours long and Robert Pattinson wasn’t brooding enough.
Needs to brood more.
So like, you know, it’s I think it’s also like a cultural in the thing too, because the last like like Superman was happy like that, you know, a happy fun go lucky, you know, blockbuster last year.
7:18
But I mean, like, I think, I think culturally where we are now, like I don’t think people, society as a whole, no matter where you are on the political spectrum, everyone’s pretty either night list stick or, you know, pessimistic so.
7:38
I would also argue that to have a blockbuster, you have to have Blockbuster Video, and we don’t.
So it’s true.
This kind of, yeah, defeats the purpose of having a block.
Well, we have.
One we got that one like like either Oregon or Washington, it’s.
True, yeah.
7:53
So the movie that we’re we’re tackling today and you know, let me let me just queue up some some patriotic music.
It’s obviously.
Good morning, USA.
Because we’re going to get completely basted by, yeah, the copyright, but no, what we’re, what we’re tackling today is called the Patriot.
8:20
Oh, I thought, American dead.
Fuck yeah.
You wished it was every, you know, 15 seasons of American Dead.
No, The Patriot from 2000, which again, I have to state, and I think I said this in the outro of the last episode, but I am very, I’m kind of surprised that this film was released in 2000 because it really does to me feel like it’s a 90s film, like in, you know, Braveheart style 1990s, like late 90s style film.
8:48
You’re only saying that just because Mel Gibson’s the star.
Maybe.
Maybe I feel like the movie feels older, like it’s kind of gotten itself into the pantheon of of Colt cinema of, you know, action war movies, blockbusters, that it feels older than the than 2000.
9:11
So it’s this year, it’s 26 years old.
We missed the 25th anniversary, unfortunately.
But yeah, I mean America. 250 is more.
Important.
That is true.
That’s true.
It just, it just feels older for some reason.
And you know, after watching it, I would say that it does have sort of like this timeless, sort of, you know, nineties, 2000s element to it.
9:32
But I, you know, I, I think I, I feel like maybe it’s just because we grew up with it that it feels a little bit older to me.
I don’t.
Know I, I would agree because again, like at the time, like you have like, you know, Saving Private Ryan and you know, Black Hawk Down and those like type of stuff, you know, action war movies.
9:52
It does.
This film does feel like it should have came out in like 96972000 feels almost like it’s like an anathema to, you know, what was going on the zeitgeist at the time.
I I would agree with that because like in my head and it’s like, oh, that film came out and you know, 96 and no it didn’t.
10:17
It’s like I do the same thing with the golden eye.
I always think like what came out like 9698, right?
No 95.
It’s like, Oh yeah, I keep forgetting that the game came out like 4 years later.
That’s why you were on.
I think you, you kind of you, you, you landed on something too.
10:33
That’s interesting.
So we get just talk.
You know the intro here is that this time period 2000, 2001 was a.
Huge.
War movie type period of time.
We had stuff like you mentioned black OP down Saving Private Ryan, but then you you reminded me there was other other things like behind enemy lines from 2001.
10:58
It’s a huge time frame of war movies.
Why do you think that is?
What do you what do you think about the historicalness of it?
I think Saving Private Ryan and the money that that fucker brought in everyone was green lighting anything that was semi.
What 1999, I want to say, was it 898?
11:18
Yeah.
So yeah, you’re probably right on the money there.
Then, you know, Saving Private Ryan was like, wow, the war effort can really draw things in.
And so everybody was was making something similar.
To and that was pretty popular up until like 2004 because around then you get the board in movies and then everything starts becoming super, you know, hyper fight terrorism, super Asian shit so.
11:44
Sure, which makes sense.
I mean at the time.
Yeah.
So yeah, no, I think Saving Private Ryan’s the sole answer.
And you know, that’s a movie I think would be fun to do one of these days because it’s a movie.
As a young person watching it, I loved it.
12:02
Something that got me into like liking History.
I thought it was a really good movie.
And the older I get, I watch it like it is a well made movie.
But is it like the posturing of it and like how it like, you know, sets America’s mind frame for like understanding like the politics of the film?
12:20
It’s not good, not good.
At all.
Yeah, I think, I think you have that kind of, you have that problem with most movies that are made, you know, because America is one of the biggest distributors of movies.
And you when you have them trying to tell a war story from the standpoint of America, you are obviously going to have them kind of harp on the the best parts of what America contributed and not not necessarily the worst parts of it.
12:53
And I think stuff like that’s the reason why people to this day think like we single handedly beat the knots.
Yeah, yeah, we saw stormed.
In and get out knocked on their.
Door and said get it.
You know, you know, not mentioning at all.
I actually it was the Soviets in the 20 million that, you know, died on the Eastern front that, you know, got that job done.
13:15
We were just a little part of the European front and that being but I say that being besides the point.
But like, I mean, we’ll talk about it when it comes to this film too, because this film is terribly just nonsensically batshit with like, you know, it’s whimsy and jingoism and.
13:36
Right.
Yeah, It’s, it’s a movie about the Revolutionary War written from the American side, written as though, you know, America was complete, you know, the complete completely devastated by England.
And there was really no other option.
13:52
They were left with, you know, no other option besides fighting a war that no one wanted to do.
And and, you know, it, it, it, it’s obviously not historically accurate.
And we’ll talk about historical fiction versus like this movie’s historical fiction, you know, with the emphasis on the fiction.
14:12
But yeah, I think you, you always run into that.
And I feel like, like you said, the idea behind these movies, The Patriot included, they, they did, they were pretty successful when they came out at the time.
And now that we have had some distance from those and we’ve kind of, I feel like we’ve done a little bit better at trying to understand history better than the rewrites that we’ve done.
14:40
It is that we, we now look back at these movies and kind of think like, you know, they, they, they aren’t as good as people were lauding them for back in the day.
So and you said too that this is a movie that you didn’t even really need to watch for this episode.
14:57
Like you could have just gone off of memory and you would have been fine.
This is like this movie I’ve seen like, like it’s probably in like the top ten of films that I’ve seen like the most.
It’s like The Godfather I could in like Empire Strikes Back.
I could talk about it like, you know, like it.
15:15
I could have amnesia and like somebody would say like a word, like a sleeper age.
I’d wake up and be able to, you know, just right off.
Yeah.
I’ve seen this movie a billion times.
And I’ve already said it before on the podcast.
I said the last episode, it’s a this is going to be giving my score away a little bit.
15:33
It’s a guilty pleasure.
But this film like with like, you know, Christmas Story, which makes sense because like it took me till I was like in college to see that movie and even though it was on TBS show 24/7 every year, this movie was the equivalent.
15:51
But I’m like The History Channel TBS and like AMC not like every 4th of July weekend.
So I like it was it’s like Tom Hanks is big.
If it’s on TV, I’m going to and I’m just out of the shower balls naked.
16:09
I’m going to sit down and watch it, you know, soap suds and all on my bed because I’m just sitting there watching it, like taking it all in.
You know, we could have watched it the one year we we were playing Red Dead Online and there’s five time XP, but we we didn’t do that.
16:27
We were both grinding out that five time XP.
But yeah, no, I, I have seen this film a billion times.
It’s sad.
So.
Yeah, and I haven’t, I, this is my first time really actually sitting down and watching this movie.
I you know, I don’t really think I’ve had the experience of seeing more than a couple minutes of it.
16:45
So yeah, it’s interesting.
I would you know what, what was the reasoning behind you seeing this movie so many times?
Like, what?
Was it just the historical element to it that you liked watching it?
Or was it like a staple in your family that you felt like you had to watch it or what?
17:03
No, no, no, no, my family aren’t very well addressed in like films, except like my older sister.
No, I saw this when it came out on the VHSA neighbor rented it their family and they watched it over there on on there.
17:21
So I was like 11 years old, ten years old when I was out on VHS and just liked it.
And then like again, like I said, every year for like 15 years, it was on television constantly.
So I like I said, if it was on and I was like like flicking through the channels, I’d flip it over and watch it, you know, so.
17:43
Good to know.
All right, let’s take a break real quick and talk about what we’ve got on the show today for drinking, because it’s not a it’s not technically a beer.
We normally have beer, but this time we went with something a little bit different.
Martin had seen that there was a special special edition beverage at our local Stewart’s and.
18:06
And if you’re well, if you’re in the Adirondacks, you would know it’s pronounced Stewart’s starts.
And it was kind of a perfect alignment for this episode, you know, obviously released for the July 4th time period, but you know, it’s something that would would go well with the theme.
18:23
And so we decided to grab it.
It’s called it’s it’s made by big Sips, I guess is the the brand.
I don’t know if the brand is big Sips or super Sips or whatever, but they have a, a bunch of different variations of this, but big Sips with AZ, of course.
18:43
And the the beverage is just called America, you know, with a button with an apostrophe, just America. the IT is, it comes in a like juice box of sorts.
You know, it’s like a cardboard juice box with a.
19:02
It’s like a free sun.
You like.
It is like the long forgotten like box juice that I remember drinking as a kid.
I don’t know if you do sips, you know, sip that you know.
Yeah, and, and, or it’s, you know, actually I think my daughter’s formula comes in this type of packaging as well.
19:24
Easy to get it mistaken for and you accidentally dump that into.
It’s a high C ecto cooler.
That’s right.
I’ll be honest with you, I’ve never heard of big sips before.
Haven’t really seen it.
I don’t really look at stuff like this and in stores really anyway, you know, this sort of thing.
This reminds me of like, yeah, like you were saying off, off air before, like gamer fuel or some sort of, you know, stupid tie in with video games and stuff like that.
19:48
So I don’t really look at this stuff that often.
I’m also not a huge fan of like the malt beverage kick sort of thing.
And you know, stuff like that seltzer’s club tails or whatever they’re called.
I don’t really care about that stuff that much.
So this stuff kind of passes me by.
20:04
But it made sense for the for the episode in the theme.
This one is basically it’s like like Windex blue in the in the packaging and it’s effectively like a bomb pop.
Would you say a rock pop, a bomb pop, whatever you call it?
20:22
That is the the flavour like a Berry ish, you know, like a multi Berry ish malt malt beverage Berry.
And the big thing about these big sips is what they why they call them big sips.
I don’t really understand the connotations behind it because they have a super sips and the big sips is actually bigger than super.
20:41
You would think super is bigger than the big.
I don’t know.
I don’t, you know, I didn’t come up with the the marketing behind it, but the big sips is 16% in a 330 milliliter box, which is like pretty outrageous when you really stop and think about it.
20:59
Like somebody could easily pound 330 milliliters and be flat on their ass in like in like 20 minutes and just, you know, completely toasted.
But you know, in terms of actually drinking it as you’re probably meant to or like what’s the safe limit for drinking it, which is how I’m doing it, which is just literally sipping it as it’s called Big sips.
21:26
It’s not bad.
I I was expecting way, way worse than what this actually offers.
Like I was expecting a very disgustingly bitter and, and super alcoholic drink that that was not very good, but you you pounded it because you want to get drunk.
21:47
And what I got was actually like a pretty, you know, just powerful bomb pop flavour.
It’s you can definitely taste the alcohol content on it as you swallow.
There is a very, very heavy ethanol alcohol flavour to it.
It is very hot swallowing, you know, it’s a very spicy it’s like, you know, whiskey like and when you when you actually swallow.
22:13
But I would say that this.
Is this is fairly good and for like less than 4 bucks a box I don’t think it’s a bad deal.
I I, I I would say give it a try in my opinion and I’ll wait to hear yours.
What do you think?
It’s not for me.
22:33
It’s, as you said, like with the malt liquor and stuff like that.
Not a fan of these types of things, but I do like looking at the stuff in the store just to kind of see what the Hell’s, you know, being released.
And I saw this and I was like, oh God, this is trailer trash.
22:55
Do like, you know, I didn’t expect it to be 16% drinking it.
Oh, that was that was some spicy one drinking it.
Yeah, it tastes like a bomb pop, you know, got the blue Raspberry, a little lemon and a slight hint of cherry at the end.
23:14
The alcohol on it is very pronounced, like it’s like an unrefined vodka.
You get that like, you know, big kick at the end.
So if you’re not a fan of that, you’re not going to, you know, care for it.
It’s super sugary.
23:29
I can tell especially because it’s fucking 95° here and like 100% you made to do right now I’m going to wake up with a hangover and like have like beer shits for three days straight because my body, even if I sat here and just pumped like IV into me for three days straight, this is going to override it.
23:52
It is what it is like for the price point and then you’re looking to get shit faced in a hurry.
If you’re a kid, go for it, you know, if not, I’d say stay away.
I hate I hate like the big sips, like you know, with the ZI hate the America I hate like all that, like, you know shit about it.
24:17
Like what was once, you know, funny to belittle people like that now is, you know, these assholes revel in it.
So just looking at it is like mocking.
And I hate that we’ve let this become part of our country game culture, you know?
24:34
Yeah.
I don’t think George Washington would be like, ah, yes, freedom, liberty.
Let me drink this boozy beer, you know?
This is like for people who are celebrating July 4th on a boat, they want to get, they want to find out that they can get a DUI on a boat and get a big sip.
25:01
That’s, that’s, that’s what that’s what’s going on here.
So, yeah, I mean, like I said, it’s fine.
I, I probably wouldn’t, you know, go out of my way to get it again, it’s fine if like if you need something really quick, like, you know, if I was in college and I was like going to some party and you know, I used to go with Old English for the quick fix.
25:21
But you know, big sips could do the same too, for a lot for, you know, for cheaper.
So I don’t know.
Such a such a refined drinker.
That’s right.
Yeah.
Can tell you weren’t watching.
You hadn’t seen Star Wars yet then, because Billy Williams is was the Colt 45, you know, Oh, 45 a couple times too.
25:38
Yeah.
So.
In King Cobra as well, you know.
Good.
Hurricane, yeah, You know, I don’t see any of those anymore so.
They’re around.
I haven’t seen King Cobra.
You can still get 40 as World English and Co 45 right here.
I was thinking they may have fallen out of the.
25:54
I don’t think they make hurricanes anymore because that’s what people in college when I went sweet job was, you know, hurricane malt liquor and those tall boys.
So yeah.
Oh God.
All right, well let’s talk to Patriot.
This movie is almost 3 hours long, so, you know, we obviously have to condense it down a little bit.
26:15
I guess where we want to start is, you know, the film picks up like right around 1776, right?
I think they even have a graphic that says 1776 and.
It starts, it starts off with the old Fallout line war, Yeah.
Basically, yeah, Effectively, war never changes, but America had to fight.
26:36
So, you know, and so basically the idea behind this is we’ve got Ben, old Ben Martin.
You know he fought in the the.
Just the relative.
Of mine, yeah, exactly.
Yeah, very, very much so.
You might you.
You probably had a relative in the Revolutionary War for sure.
26:54
And this guy, yeah, he must be historical as well, right?
He’s got to be no?
He’s like he’s based off of somebody.
But yeah, I know I was just, I was just joking.
But you’ve got old Ben Martin.
He fought in the French and Indian War right prior to this.
27:11
And which kind of has I was?
Going to say which to preface for those who listen that are outside the country, that’s considered that what they call the seven-year war because it’s wasn’t just it was a theater to a greater European conflict.
27:27
Oh.
Very good, very good.
Yeah, that’s like greedy use, but waiting youth like the Band-Aid your words about true.
Yeah, you got to get the history in.
Yeah, agreed.
But I think like, so that that idea, like the the the setting up that Benjamin Martin was part of the French Indian War.
27:46
It’s pretty important to the movie because it is effectively sets him up as like this guy who’s like, you know what, I fought in a war.
I was really good at it.
Right.
Like I, you know, everybody in the beginning of this movie is, you know, quick to say, like Benjamin.
Oh, Benjamin Martin.
Wow.
What a sharpshooter.
28:02
What a what a guy.
Who’s a master tomahawk thrower, you know?
Oh, he raped all the ladies in town.
Yeah, no, they don’t.
They don’t mention that part for some reason.
He he raped all the ladies and scalped all the Indians and French that that.
28:17
They like to just call the spoils of war.
You could like tell like the way he plays it, like it’s his Vietnam, like he had fortunate.
Son playing Exactly, exactly yes, they kind of treat it like that where you know that he’s, you know, having flash hushbacks at French and eating more.
And that’s why he’s such a failed Carpenter as we see him in the beginning trying to make this.
28:37
Hilarious.
Hilariously look like like like no wonder it didn’t hold your fat ass.
It’s like making odd twigs.
The thing with that that strikes me as really funny is like it almost the beginning of the movie where he’s making that chair.
28:53
That rocking chair makes it look like no one has invented the rocking chair before, you know what I mean?
Like he’s like, he’s like, he’s, he’s, he’s, he’s trying to perfect the recipe of the rocking chair.
The the he’s the Tesla.
Assistant you.
Know because everybody’s watching.
29:10
It’s like, will it work?
Will it work?
It’s a rocking chair.
No one’s had one before, you know, you know, on the plantation in South Carolina, no one had a rocking chair at that time.
And it’s funny because like later on, they show him in, you know, the the British headquarters and he’s like examining a rocking chair that works is I don’t believe.
29:33
It’s like, how does this?
How does this?
Work, you know, it’s, it’s really funny.
I I think that like, at least it’s a good call back because it’s pretty funny.
Yeah, no, it’s a good joke that like, you know, because it like when watching this film, you’re kind of like, you’d be like, what the fuck?
29:49
Like what?
Like what’s the point?
It’s the fact that it takes like an hour and 45 minutes to take that off.
Like that is a that is a long time for the movie to really pay off this whole idea.
Like at the beginning, 15 minutes of the opening of the movie, them designing a rocking chair that doesn’t work.
30:07
It’s maybe.
That wasn’t originally written in the script.
Like Mel Gibson, like at the time was really into carpentry.
And they’re like, OK, fine, now we’ll let you try to do like, you know, rustic 18th century carpentry on like for in the film, he’s just sitting there.
30:22
How do they do it on the fuck?
And it also defeats the purpose of like, they have the not slaves that are around the plantation and, you know, they could have easily whipped one together because apparently because by the end of the movie, they’re building plantation houses and all kinds of things.
This is like, you know, Ben, stick to what you’re good at here.
30:41
Killing, killing natives.
Killing, killing and maiming and throwing Tomahawks, but not.
Only that I say that that that is like strike one for this film when it comes not just like historical accuracy, but the fact that they whitewashed slavery so bad in this.
30:58
So not only they whitewashed it like they have the goal to like, yeah, no, we free, we help Mr. Martin like we can’t.
You know, we all family and it’s like, ah, yes, in 1776.
Yeah, South.
Carolina is.
31:14
The the deal that like some of them are like, I’d rather die for them than, you know, like be shot in the face by the British Army then go with them.
Is is just like outlandish and like disrespectful to be honest with you.
It’s like the play.
31:30
Oh yes, there’s only one racist and all the greatest Charleston, you know, it’s just one.
And this Donald Logue is that.
Donald Logue gets to be the only racist guy who is turned around in this movie too.
You know, in in like true historical actually, you’d think like everybody would just be treating on like absolute shit the whole time, like in the whole movie.
31:49
Like it would be very it would feel very bad, of course, but it would just be more authentic to the time period that you just like, not just Donna Low because everybody would be like, why the fuck are we fighting with these black people?
You know it’s not.
It’s not just that it’s, it’s the white washing is bad enough and it gives people I think that don’t bother like, you know, reading into like the deeper nuances of our history, this idea of like, Oh yeah, no, slavery wasn’t that bad.
32:18
Why are you bitching about it still in 2026?
If at the very least you’re going to go that route?
Don’t show them as like, happy go getters and like, oh, no, we do.
We free.
Yeah, we, Abigail, you’re free.
32:33
That is a pretty awful.
You know, don’t do that.
Just keep them to the off to the side in the background, like, yeah, tend them to the cotton and stuff.
Don’t, don’t make you feel like they’re part of like, Oh yeah.
Like, Oh yeah.
You know, Abigail loves reading to the children, which would have been illegal.
32:51
And you know they have good time.
I I did.
It’s just really insulting.
I do.
Yeah.
I do think it would have been better if they just pretended like they didn’t have to share them at all.
You know, it just just don’t don’t even bother.
And it like, yeah, like the other, like you said, like the whole idea of like it was it’s pretty insulting where, you know, they’re like, oh, I can’t read the sign.
33:11
Donald was like, I can, you know, I’ll go over and read that sign for you.
I don’t know.
The whole thing really feels bad.
And I think in 2026, a lot of people watching now really see it as like, what the fuck is this?
Which to the point is like, that’s actually one thing that’s is great about early America.
33:32
We had like some of the the highest literacy in the world because of the, you know, Protestant background of everyone read the Bible and figure it out for yourself type stuff like there was, we were like for a long time one of the most well read nations and most literate nations because of that.
33:50
So.
Doesn’t also feel weird, you know, knowing in, you know, the Revolutionary War that Heath Ledger even has to say like, oh, we’re going to be win this war and then everybody’s going to be a free and equal man, you know, and then knowing.
34:06
Actual history, it just seems well, not only that, just like because it’s so on the nose of like, you know well, you may not be free now, but one day the new world will you be a free man.
We’ll know what freedom is and it’s it’s it’s so it’s just incredibly like idiotic in the way because it’s all it’s just platitudes and say that has like doesn’t, you know, explain it all?
34:36
And that’s half the problem, you know, with how like the Revolutionary War.
And it’s kind of one of the reasons why I like, for me at least, I don’t like and for me when it comes to like American history, it’s not something that I’ve been like overwhelmingly like interested in because we have deified like the founding fathers and all like, you know, our history so much.
35:01
It’s just like like for like whatever because.
You know when you think?
Because when you think.
About it, it’s like, why did we break away?
Will Britain text us on some things?
And we were like, no, we were not representing Parliament, so fuck you.
Goodbye.
And and it’s like, yeah, well, that, you know, this doesn’t really come with a nuanced understanding when you get taught in like school, college.
35:25
Yeah.
But I mean, because it’s like, well, with the French and Indian war happened and they wanted to get money back for, you know, protecting us, you know, because we’re the subjects.
So it makes it all you know sound so you know to steady eye.
And, you know, I think part of the problem too is that it just doesn’t the, the film itself doesn’t really treat it with the kind of deference that it really, yeah, nuance that it really needs.
35:52
And so you kind of are left with this very like, again, this movie is 3 hours long.
And yeah, it’s really not that focused on historical accuracy or even even like, you know, one thing I was going to say about this, and we kind of got off on a little bit of a different area that I was going to start with, but it’s perfectly to perfect to jump into is that one thing that I found really interesting about this movie is that it does a really poor job of actually depicting like the events of the Revolutionary War because it’s so focused on Mel Gibson’s character as Benjamin Martin, who this guy is like, you know, come up with a militia and, you know, he’s leading his own little militia here.
36:31
That it it doesn’t do a very good job of actually depicting the events.
So like about the, you know, I think it’s like 2 and 2 and 15 minutes in, all of a sudden they’re like, we’re like, we’re winning the war.
Like all of a sudden it’s like all we’ve got to do is this one last push and we’ve got it basically.
36:49
And.
It doesn’t do a good job because like, yeah, the film starts in 1776, but when Charleston falls to Britain, like what you see the American flag waving over Charleston and then turns to British, it doesn’t say, like, now it’s 1780.
Like, it doesn’t tell you that.
So it feels like, like you have like, no sense of time and you have no sense of like, what is going on around you.
37:14
Like they throw some names in like the one battle where they’re like, you know, the British are, you know, mud hole stomping, you know, the Continentals and you know, you got Bell Gibson going like Horatio’s of God damn fool trying to meet the field.
37:30
And it’s like cool, That’s like the one line like referring to Horatio Gates.
Like what is it having same thing at the end or like Nathaniel Green, just like your militia are going to break.
It’s like cool, that’s good having him in there for 4 minutes, you know, from right.
37:47
It’s just like you get no bearing and understanding of like, as you said, like of the war itself, because it’s such a it’s a melodrama.
It doesn’t like it has like the aspirations of trying to be like a historical epic, like a Ben Hur, like a Lawrence of the Arabia or, you know, Bridge on the River Kwai, like it wants to be that.
38:11
But the problem is it’s not filled one with Shakespearean actors. 2 It’s not like grounded enough in reality to like and heavy historical lens, whether it be good or bad, like actually work and it’s more focused on being a soap opera, a drama with a lot of violence and gore and just nonsense going on.
38:38
Yeah, I mean, and I think like, again, what what we’re talking about is the film prioritizes Mel Gibson’s family, right?
It’s it’s Mel Gibson is literally the Patriots.
He’s the yes, yes.
He’s also Christ.
He’s the titular patriot here.
38:54
And so because of because that that’s what I was kind of getting at with his background in the French and Indian War.
It’s the guy that everyone turns to.
They’re like, this guy can do it.
If anybody can organize a militia, this guy can do it.
Because, you know, at the beginning of the film, after his one son is murdered by Jason Isaac’s character Tavington, who storms their their plantation and burns it to the ground and kills the kills the kid, he sets out for revenge, right?
39:21
He because eventually before he was like, you know what, I don’t really want to get involved in this.
You know, it’s not really our business as this family, you know, to get involved.
And then once that kind of hits home, he’s like, well, everybody’s involved in this, see, because the, you know, the British are even attacking civilians.
39:37
So he eventually gets involved and he goes for this revenge scheme.
And there’s that one whole scene where he’s basically guerrilla warfaring it.
Oh, it’s turning 2 trees.
It’s great.
No, it’s great because like his like like 10 and like 7 year old son are sniping.
39:53
Like, you know, he’s like so sick because as the man who, you know, conquered and fucked Fort Wilderness, he has a tomahawk.
He’s got 12 muskets at the ready at the house, 6 pistols running out there.
Like come on.
40:10
Like it’s a really great scene.
Like it does work like as like it works as a spectacle.
Yes, OK.
You’re right.
You’re right in the essence of like, like the film does give Mel Gibson like a good point because when they’re doing the whole on the note, you know, talking about, you know what, when they’re at the church about like whether or not they should fight the British or not and they’re doing like work, work.
40:36
What countries that American nation do I disagree with taxation without representation?
Of course I do.
But like it like, yes, it makes sense.
Like a man who’s already lost his wife too.
We don’t fucking know what the hell happened there.
She’s just dead.
Was it childbirth?
40:52
Was it the vapors?
We don’t know.
She’s just, you know, just in the fact that he’s got to take, you know, care of seven kids and his oldest, Gabriel’s already off to war.
Like the fact that like, yes, I want our, you know, country, you know, us to break away from Britain.
41:10
But I’m not willing to sacrifice myself and my sons and family for that.
It’s a good point.
And, like, it’s a good set up.
Agree.
And like the whole revenge part of that, like with Tavington showing up and killing, you know, his son and like you know, all the others dramatic a little ridiculous because I’m pretty sure they wouldn’t be shooting them.
41:32
They would have just bayoneted the why waste the fucking besides the point.
But the whole like would see where the the ghost is created.
Like it’s stupid, but it’s awesome because it’s so the whole film relies on the idea like apparently everyone’s a fucking charm shoot, like everyone’s using modern rifles because the accuracy they’re fucking firing these things at you know, and the kids too fucking and they’re brown best firing away like sniping these, you know, brigades.
42:02
But it’s really great and fun and you get to see bell.
This is where Mel Gibson is the best in this because as we were talking about off air with you saying like he’s a not that good of a dramatic actor, I’d agree.
But him running around basically as, you know, passionate with Christ, Mel Gibson, you know, slaughtering people with a fucking tomahawk.
42:21
Pretty cool and pretty fun, you know.
Yeah, it definitely is is a fun scene.
It is absolutely over the top, I would say.
Like, you know, him bouncing from tree to tree taking down what, like 20 redcoats, you know, between him and his two sons is outrageous.
42:39
I’d like, again, I think that is it.
It makes sense in a film, like in a cinema, cinematic blockbuster, but like for reality it’s it’s a little bit far fetched.
It only works as well because if it like, you know, if you’re trying to do it today, it wouldn’t work.
It’s like, you know, automatic fire, but because it’s muzzle loading muskets.
42:57
Like, yeah, no, that I do.
I do like the way that they did depict the muzzle loading.
Like everybody’s just kind of standing around like little shit, I shot one shot.
I’m, I guess I’m going to stay here, reload.
Well, which is true because like, again, like when people think about it, like like when I was a kid, like why that was so.
43:15
Like when you watch like, you know, or play a game like the Total War, like games and you do like airplane, Empire, Napoleon, it’s like, why is this even a thing?
Why would you have these people marching a line and shoot back and forth at each other?
That seems stupid.
The idea is because you’re all using range weapons that are not accurate.
43:35
You’re firing in mass, you know, to take them out.
And so having, you know, which you know, made, you know, makes sense.
So I mean, like it’s, you know, it’s cool.
Like I like like I think it’s fun enough.
I like I said, does it like all inspired or anything?
43:52
No, but it’s like, oh, that’s pretty bad.
You know, like when he throws the tomahawk and like when the guy’s got his Gabriel, like, you know, he fucking, you know?
Yeah, the the Masters like tomahawk players like you know, not even thinking about it just.
Maybe that’s why his wife sat there.
44:07
He’s just doing a party trick one night with the baby.
Went wrong.
With the tomahawk.
And he’s like, yeah.
And actually.
You know, yeah, I mean, I will say, like, I think that, well, I actually, I’m curious what you think.
So because the film really sets up this, you know, again, the Revolutionary War is happening around this family.
44:26
But really, the idea is centered on Mel Gibson’s character, who is fashioning A militia.
And, you know, probably the first hour is basically him getting the initiative and then rounding up a bunch of militia members to join him in the militia.
44:42
And then, you know, this revenge story of him setting out after Jason Isaac’s character, who I will say Tavington is a great villain.
I think that Jason Isaacs does a really good job as the villain here.
He has that very smarmy, sort of British ISM, I would say, because that’s very whole stick here.
45:02
Is that like, wow, look at this fucking British villain?
He’s not.
Only that they make it a point to to do the whole like gentleman Leo officers, you know, don’t act like that, right?
We we must fight according don’t be shooting officers and such.
45:18
They’d be really nearly all over, you know, But that’s like, again, it’s like, well, that was the whole point of the girl, you know, guerrilla warfare and like, you know, the militia.
And there was, you know, you’re not disrupting, you know, a supply line caravan by being like, we’ll meet you in the field over there.
45:38
So like, like it’s also too like it’s just like, because again, it’s like, it’s not like King George was telling Lord Cornwallis like fight gentlemanly, go out there, have a cup of, you know, nice Earl Grey tea before having the fight and point out where to have the fight.
45:55
And yeah, and like, you know, it’s stupid, but it’s funny like, you know, because again, to it gives the idea to that, you know, people have like, are they fucked?
You know, like the site, this idea of British, you know, like, oh, they’re above the fray.
Yeah, there is dignity in it.
46:11
And, and yeah, I mean, I, I think it’s an interesting idea.
It, I think that it is a way to villainize the British even more.
It’s like, oh, look, they they originally fought with dignity and then all of a sudden their officers started killing civilians for the fun of it, right.
46:28
And it’s so it kind of sets that in motion of like, look how bad the the British were.
And so we were kind of forced into it.
We were just, you know, that there was nothing that we could do.
We either had to fight the same way or we we were going to all perish and and and immediately lose because we didn’t fight with the same amount of vigor as the British.
46:49
And I think like, again, that is a sort of historical fictiony part of this movie is that, you know, like it really paints the British as like these absolute villains.
There’s really no, there’s really no even characterizing a British person from a, you know, a humanistic perspective.
47:15
I guess the, and they’re actually the only person who it tries to do that with is Adam Baldwin’s character, who effectively is a traitor and then has some strong feelings about it after he’s forced to burn down an entire church full of women and men and, you know, like which civilians?
47:30
Which is straight #2 on this film not have like only having like 1 loyalist in the army.
Yeah, not no.
They like the American Revolution.
There was a lot nationwide, a lot less support for the war than there was, you know, up in New England.
47:51
And you would find more support.
But like especially down the Carolinas and the South and out half that are like half of Cornell, Wallace’s army should have been fucking loyalists marching around.
Right.
Yeah.
And and I think like that’s another interesting element that you you’re you’re pointing out right there is that this movie, again, it pits literally Americans against the British, but in the actual scheme of the Revolutionary War.
48:19
I think what would have been a more interesting dynamic for this movie is to have a lot more loyalists in in the movie that were antagonists, because that would have given a lot more dramatic heft to the film than just having some random British villain who, you know, we have to get vengeance with it’d.
48:39
Be it’d be like the civil works.
There’s many families exactly.
You had, you know, one person fighting for the Union, another, you know, for the Confederacy.
Exactly.
You know, I think I think again, like, because the film is like a part of its time and creation.
48:56
Like I like, I like everyone loves the war.
Everyone was boring.
And it’s just like, it’s not true.
And that’s something like that.
Doesn’t, you know, get talked about enough like, you know?
Well, because I think that would defeat some of the jingoism.
No, it does.
49:12
No, it defeats the the jingoism, but at the same time, it’s like if that were the case, if everybody was, you know, for the war, well, we would have curb stomp the British out of America and we wouldn’t have need the French because everybody would have been there with a fucking rifle at the side and ready to, you know.
49:34
Yeah, yeah, and our own territory and yeah yeah, I agree.
I I think what I was getting at is, you know, though I really like Jason Isaacs character.
He does a great job.
He’s he’s he’s the epitome of the British villain.
I do think that it is really kind of a waste of time that could have been spent on actual interesting dynamics of that were at play in the Revolutionary War.
50:00
It it you know, I could have definitely had more going on where it just didn’t need to focus on this really single conflict that was occurring, because I do think that it is sort of wasting time dealing with that rather than the actual Revolutionary War as a whole.
50:20
And so it, you know, if the if the goal of the patriot is to show, wow, look at this patriot, like literally a patriot who fought for his his belief in a country like America, then to kind of side, you know, sideline that in favor of a vengeance plot, I think wastes a lot of time in this three hour epic.
50:45
I don’t think it needed to be that long because it could have really cut that out.
And I still think you would have had a pretty interesting movie about the Revolutionary War that may have been a little bit more authentic to what actually occurred in the Revolutionary War.
Then you know, like 1 farmer’s vendetta, which is probably not even remotely close to what happened for for most people.
51:06
You know, and like it’s, it seems cool, but it, it, I think as a whole, it’s just waste a lot of time.
I think it’s a film that’s a product, like, it’s a product of the time.
Yeah.
Because I think if you were to do it today, you’d get a better rate and more nuances.
51:23
Again, you’re right In three hours, like there should be a lot more going on to it than just the soap opera melodrama.
And it’s just soap opera melodrama, you know, again, like it’s like pretty offensive in the grand scheme.
51:40
Things like Donald Lowe being like the 1 lone racist and, you know, then focusing on like, oh, we’re going to this city.
We’re going for this city now, you know, you know, you’re right.
I think like, it could have done more with the actual, you know, time period and war itself to, you know, give it more gravitas and it’s just more of a inconvenient background.
52:11
Right, Yeah.
I mean, I, I think, I think that the the soap opera element kind of lends itself to this, this idea that the film had to be an epic.
It had It couldn’t just be a strategic depiction of the Revolutionary War from the perspective of a farmer who assembled A militia like that would have been probably enough.
52:36
But what it does instead is it has to involve a lot of other things.
Like the son Gabriel has to be a really big.
You know, Heath Ledger is great.
You know, he’s, he’s a nice little, he’s kind of a boyish figure in this who’s learning to become a man.
And it’s a nice story, but I.
52:53
I saw I saw the one local woman in town and I know after being the second to lay eyes on her that I had a massive boner.
Yeah, exactly.
I think like it’s, it’s a nice thought, but again, it’s really kind of a waste of time that doesn’t really go that many places.
53:13
I think it’s just kind of pulling at the heartstrings.
For one thing, they get married.
There’s this whole like nice little ceremony.
And Mel Gibson’s has this nice little moment with her where he gives her, you know, a necklace and kind of says like you’re the, you’re the, the anchor from basically, it’s like the epitome of like the, the anchor.
53:32
You’re the anchor for my son.
And I think it’s like the North Star though, right?
This is what what it is.
And, you know, it’s a nice little scene.
And then like maybe 15 minutes later, she’s dead in the church.
And so it’s like it’s, you know, it’s a it’s a means to an end for pulling the heartstrings of like, look how terrible the British were.
53:49
Look how awful they were.
They they, you know, they burn civilians right to the ground in the church as a means to an end.
And you know, I think like that’s kind of a time waster.
The same with with what’s her name?
Charlotte is it?
54:04
Yeah, Charlotte Jolie Richardson’s character who I was like for the longest time I was like, what the fuck was she in?
And I had to look it up and it was pissed off and I realized, oh, it was nip tuck.
That’s what she was in nip tuck.
But anyway, like her whole character is kind of a waste of time, right?
Like it’s, it’s, it’s not, it doesn’t really add anything.
54:23
I, I saw a joke that somebody wrote that was like, this film was really trying hard to make you feel bad about a plantation burning down not once, but twice.
Like, you know, like.
It is.
It is true.
Like they had to have Charlotte, you know, Charlotte’s plantation burned down too.
54:40
And you’re like, no, not the plantation that had a whole bunch of slaves on, not the plantation.
You know, it is, it is funny, but her, her whole entire character is really unnecessary.
And then they try to shoehorn in way later on, like the fact that Benjamin is, you know, he’s going to he’s he’s in a relationship with this woman who is his wife’s sister.
55:04
Like all of a sudden he’s just kind of attracted to her and gives her a smooch on the lips.
And the kids are like, oh, dad, what are you doing?
What do you mean all of a all of a sudden?
He’s been scoping that out since.
She does have the corset on for a reason.
Yeah.
55:21
The the daughter specifically is like, Dad, you dog, you dog, what are you doing?
I just learned.
To say that’s why Susan’s like you, sack of shit, I see, I see you put it in her pooper.
Yeah, and and like again, that is a complete waste of time.
55:39
Like we.
The whole stitching thing with like, you know, when Gabriel staying at over and his, you know, betrothed place and the mother stitches him in like for good night.
And so like he doesn’t like, you know, like it’s got a funny joke like in it with like when he’s when the dad, his gun, like, you know, Mr. Howard, he’s got the old like Pete’s dragon contraption here because you can’t hear and he’s less trying to hear if they’re making, you know, animal noises, you know, the dog, his wife’s like I’m a better sore than my mother.
56:18
And he’s like, I hope so.
You know it didn’t work before with this lust, you know, and.
That’s right.
It’s just like, yeah.
Like, is that like a small little funny bit?
Yeah.
But the film’s filled with like, stuff like that.
It’s like, you’re not it.
Does that anything?
56:34
No.
Yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s like the idea that this film, I feel like there was a, you know, it’d set out to be an epic.
And that’s what it is.
It does, for better or worse.
It adds a lot of, you know, unnecessary detail to make it an epic.
And you know, I don’t necessarily think that is always a bad thing.
56:53
You know, for I would say this movie is really for almost 3 hour movie, it does go by pretty quickly.
You know, it’s not like terribly slow paced or anything like that where you’re sitting there constantly, like, wow, look at the time, you know, like what?
We’re only another 15 minutes in.
57:09
Damn.
You know, it’s it’s pretty well paced as you know, it’s brisk.
I think it moves pretty well, especially in like the middle portion of the movie where it’s kind of jumping from militia encounter to militia encounter.
And you sort of have those, you know, those in a Brief Encounters where, you know, there’s that funny scene where they blow up the ship with all the supplies and the woman at the part, the dinner.
57:29
Party, OH.
My God, fire, fire, you know, And then Jason Isaacs character kicks back martini because he’s like, oh God damn it.
You know those.
Hold on.
So, Speaking of, what’s the best part about this film?
I don’t know what.
57:47
What would you say?
Tom Wilkinson, Paul Wallace as General Cornwall.
He’s good.
He’s good.
He is the best part about this film.
Like the whole like, you know, I roll at the woman when that happens and like horse blanket, it’s a horse blanket.
58:06
And just just at the end when like the final battle, like damn that man, damn that Tavington.
I will have, you know, like he does such a great job, like, you know, doing the whole Jupiter mouse.
Come here, boys.
Thank you.
58:22
Honestly, I appreciate Leon Rippy as well as the one guy who kills himself there.
It blows the brains out.
He’s great too, because he’s got he, he really takes the part.
He kind of looks like, you know, like this.
He looks like somebody you’d seen Red Dead 2.
58:37
And like, yeah, he does like a like a stranger mission.
Yeah, yeah, he looks, he’s he looks the part.
He’s got like the teeth for the part.
And again, the the whole idea of like his wife dying and, you know, he kills himself is sort of a tangent that the film gets on.
But it’s a nice little note that like, oh, wow, civilians are dying in this world.
58:56
Well, not.
Only well, not only that though, too as like which I also love Renee Auberg John as the Reverend Oliver.
He’s great too because like the whole part wouldn’t like you know, he said the house when Gabriel’s coming down to try to recruit more Malaysia.
59:14
He like this is the House of God.
We get to mourn the men that have been killed and you know that at the end he see him walking off with his hat and musket and like Reverend, he’s like shepherd was sent to his flock every now and then the wolves to near and it’s like, let’s go.
But when the whole that whole scene happens when John Billings, you know, shoots himself in the head, that’s the biggest sin of them all.
59:36
You didn’t die.
You killed yourself.
You’re not here.
You’re going to the lowest of hell.
So you just shot yourself in the head, you know?
He didn’t.
He didn’t get killed in the war honourably.
Yeah, yeah.
What do you think?
What do you think of the whole like fight scene where Reverend gets shot and he like, you know, slow motion perfectly the horses, the musket to Gabriel for him to shoot, tabbing 10 like it’s.
1:00:03
So yeah, I mean, I think all of those scenes where it’s like the the idea of this, the Revolutionary War being this sort of really dramatic one-on-one fight sequence is really stupid because the idea that that happened pretty much slim to none.
1:00:20
You know, there wasn’t a time where you would.
Well, not only well, not only that, the fact that like Tavington, you know, reload his pistol within like 10 seconds, like because it’s slow MO, but he’s sitting there like, you know, and he’s able, you know, it’s just stupid.
1:00:36
Like it’s like so sloppy and like unnecessary.
It’s kind of the.
Equivalent of like Viking, you know, shows where they’re getting into like battles, you know, one-on-one, you know, weapon battles and you know, it’s it, it looks cool.
1:00:54
And I will say that the patriot has a great sense of scope.
It it, it does look like a very high budget movie.
It has many extras.
It basically they basically enlisted probably like a bunch of Revolutionary War re enactors until I come and just be like extras in the movie because it it does have a grandiose sense of scope that works well.
1:01:18
Like the, I think the one that really struck me was when they come into town and there’s all the ships that are, you know, just like the gigantic ships with their riggings all on the dock.
I was like, wow, that looks actually really great.
You know, and the film is beautiful in a lot of ways.
1:01:35
It has a lot of great shots and, you know, like I said, a great sense of scale.
So from that perspective, like as a blockbuster, that’s what you’re looking for.
You’re looking for those big moments.
And I think it does do that pretty well.
And I would argue even like we don’t really see that to this day.
1:01:53
A lot of movies don’t really capture that sense of scale and scope to the extent that movies like this did back in the day.
I think they really did it, you know, and again, that’s partially because this was all practical, right?
They had thousand literally thousands of extras.
1:02:10
It wasn’t a CGID audience of people in there.
It was it was literally thousands of extras.
I think the sense of scope really comes out in this movie.
So the war scenes in the battles really look do look good.
It’s just that realistically, no, they you know, they did the in the slow MO.
1:02:29
No, I don’t think that that’s, you know, it doesn’t doesn’t seem real, but I think they look good at least.
And that’s what you that’s what you’re looking for.
The film only had like a well, it had $110 million as a budget.
1:02:45
And yeah, I mean, I think that’s that part that looks about right for what we get from the film.
Like I said, it’s pretty grandiose.
It it has a large scope to it.
I think one of the things that really stands out too is like John Williams score is there to really make it feel bigger, right?
1:03:05
Like it the the score itself is like this very over the top, whimsical, you know, expansive score from John Williams, who’s effectively doing John Williams is John Williams.
1:03:21
You know, it’s it’s he’s showing up.
He’s making something, but I don’t know.
It’s probably not as best is where I’m getting at.
It’s OK, Like I think it’s just like, as I was telling you, it’s like what I would call like, you know, it’s AI John Williams.
1:03:39
It’s very bro and Blake, just like, you know, the just very Spielberg.
And with its high rises and whimsy and notes, it’s not bad, but I don’t think it like adds like anything spectacular to the film.
1:03:57
You know, it could be for all we care.
Scored by some student at an art school.
Yeah, just like a mimicking of of John Williams.
Yeah.
I mean, I, I think like all of these things kind of add up and what what what would you say?
1:04:16
Like, do you think that this movie is a for for the, the common viewer?
Do you think that The Patriot is a pretty good movie like for them?
I think as like a enjoyable film to watch, Yes.
If it’s like something you’re trying to get any historical value out of.
1:04:38
No.
No, But I think as like a film as a product of entertainment.
Yeah, I think you it’s totally enjoyable.
Yeah, I would agree with that.
I mean, I think it does.
What it sets out to do is being an entertaining movie about the Revolutionary War.
1:04:54
It’s like we said, it is sort of puts the emphasis on fiction.
Here it is.
You know, again, I think like the whole idea of this guy Benjamin riding around with a flag parading it as they are about to enter into the final conflict of the Revolutionary War is outlandish.
1:05:15
But as a jingoistic movie as it is, I think that it is entertaining and it has kind of prospered for American audiences because we like to think of ourselves during the Revolutionary War is something very.
Vagabonds.
Well, yeah, that.
1:05:31
All alone.
That in very unique, right?
We were unique in the fact that like we were able to break away from the British and it’s like, you know, in the scheme of the world, you know, in this film kind of even talks about that in the scheme of history, even in 1776, we’re not that unique.
1:05:48
These things kind of happened throughout history and you know, we’re kind of thinking about it from a 250 year period.
But in the scheme of history, I mean, pretty much anything you can think of did happen from from a historical perspective between nations.
1:06:05
So, you know, again, it’s not it’s not that I think that the story of America’s birth is wrote or anything like that.
I just think that this film kind of takes it at a level that is a little bit ridiculous when he when he really stop and think about it.
1:06:25
You know, I’m not one of those guys that has 1776 on the back of my truck, right?
I don’t have the Constitution’s opening paragraph written on it.
Oh, I do.
And I, you know, and when I celebrate July. 4th I’m really there.
For the beer, but.
I I intend to everybody every 4th of July, Yeah, to read all The Federalist Papers, you should.
1:06:44
Write.
You know, that would probably be better, better time spent than just watching this.
Yeah, but you know what I mean?
Like.
It’s good because again, I think like seeing our friend like I I also to the guy that plays, you know, major Finland, I’m drawing a blank on him because it’s so Turkish name.
1:07:02
So the guy that plays major Finland wave like, yes, it shows in your school, like school orthology, you know, the the French helped us and it’s like without understanding what was really, you know, going on with that and how much of an important set role thing play, because it’s like the same thing to do with like the War of 1812.
1:07:24
Oh my God, we they were impressing our sailors.
So we fought the British and it was a stalemate, but we gave it a could go.
And it’s like we don’t learn about the Napoleonic wars that much in our schools.
And it’s like, why were we able to kind of hang around with the British And during the War of 1812, they are fucking fighting Napoleon on like the war of the 6th Coalition, right.
1:07:47
That’s why.
And like, you know, it’s just, it’s just, you know, funny to think about.
And I’m ranting here, but this is funny to think about in the grand scheme of things because it’s, you know.
It is.
We like to, we like to promote this idea of like, you know, it’s like our pluckiness and ingenuity and you know, you know, free for all fighting.
1:08:07
It’s like, you know, this is The funny thing too, like the other thing too.
Like I think we should normalize not calling it the American Revolution here because everywhere else is called the War of Independence because it is a war of independence.
This is not true.
Nothing that happened during the revolution was revolutionary.
1:08:25
Like, you know.
That is true, yeah.
What?
It’s not, you know, like a great, you know, uprooting of society, like the French Revolution.
So right.
Anything else that you wanted to discuss before we get into the rating?
1:08:45
I love Jupiter, Mars, those are beautiful Great Danes.
That’s true, yeah.
Well, so strong beefy dogs.
Mars and Jupiter.
Jupiter.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Nice names for the dogs too.
I’ve been.
Apparently they are delicious delicacy as well.
1:09:05
Looking at see, the great thing about that joke too, though, is John Billings looks like, yeah, like he’s dog.
Yeah, exactly.
He’s like, so.
Like with the.
Reeve Yeah, yeah.
He might have eat dog during the French and Indian, you know, war because the reverend’s like, Oh my, like, which I find hard to believe, like you like a Reverend Beck that I could go wrong.
1:09:27
It would be like, oh, you eat dog.
It’s not like it’s horse or anything, but like, you know.
That is hilarious though.
Yeah, but yeah, like with me and Mel Goose, like, Oh yeah, stonks delicacy.
Oh, Lord yeah, Like, you know, like it is.
Yeah, with, with with him, you can you can believe you a dog.
1:09:45
All right, so on a scale of zero to 10 Grizzly cannonball attacks, what would you give?
Why would you like that guy losing his leg?
That’s.
Right, yeah, I mean it’s it’s it does have some nice, nice Corp in, you know, to kind of show the horrors of.
1:10:03
But what would you give the?
Patriot, give it a 7 1/2 hour time.
Well, look, it’s it’s historically inaccurate.
It’s a bastardization of our history.
But I do find, like I said, it’s a guilty pleasure of mine.
1:10:21
It is a film that is a giant B movie, soap opera about the birth of this country.
I think especially with today with people being more sensitive about, you know, politics and history when it comes to media, if you can understand that and you know, the things that it’s omitting, you can have a fun great time with that.
1:10:47
I think it is schlocky.
It is, you know, over the top.
But I think that’s what makes this film American because I don’t think we’re capable as a, no matter what era of enlightenment that we are of like making a film like a Bridge on the River Kwai or Lawrence of Arabia, they don’t have it in it because we got too much, you know, America, fuck it, guns blazing attitude about it.
1:11:15
So we put an Australian in this film to be the one to save us.
I think it’s fun.
It’s long, but it doesn’t feel long.
It doesn’t overstates welcome.
There’s a lot of there is some good action, as dumb as it gets, good gore, good battle, good feels.
1:11:35
It’s not tight, but it is fun enough.
I think Tom Wilkinson’s fucking the reason to watch them.
So is Jason Isaacs.
But like it is a well made, well put together film.
Just like something alike Roland Emerx Independence Day, it is what it is.
1:11:51
You’re either going to, you know, be get be able to get behind it, enjoy it for what it is or you’re not going to be interested.
But for me personally, 7 1/2, I like it.
It’s still I think works as a piece of entertainment and I would say watch and about and understand the flaws in it.
1:12:15
Yeah, I mean, I would, I would give it a 6 1/2 out of 10.
I think it’s, it’s a fun film.
You know, it’s, it is an entertaining movie, a bit on the long side.
I do think that it is overly too long for what it really needs to do.
So, you know, I think it’s kind of searching for a topic versus having something that really makes sense to to extend for almost 3 hours.
1:12:39
It’s overstuffed.
But I think what it does OfferUp is a, you know, a pretty big step up from something that I would consider like a The History Channel documentary of, you know, the Revolutionary War.
It’s it’s certainly it it, it seems like a giant budgeted version of that.
1:13:00
I think that it probably would have may have been a bit better off if it was something like a four part mini series or something like that where it could really expound upon these personal stories of people involved in the Revolutionary War.
1:13:17
And that might have been a better use of time for those types of stories.
With that said, I think like, you know, giving a very personal vendetta story within the context of the Revolutionary War sort of detracts from the idea behind the Revolutionary War.
1:13:36
Like I feel I feel like it should have maybe focused primarily more on on the the personal stories of people involved in it that participated in the militia that kind of led them to victory against the British.
1:13:51
But like in this case, I think that it kind of takes away from some of those personal stories of people also involved in the militia.
And then it kind of only comes back to that when it feels like it.
So I think like it is a, you know, obviously jingoistic movie is certainly not really based in historical accuracy from the American perspective.
1:14:13
And it certainly takes liberties as to, you know, kind of telling the birth of America.
But at the same time, it’s an entertaining movie.
I think that’s what you’re looking for in a blockbuster.
And, you know, it’s it definitely doesn’t surprise me from a Roland Emmerich type movie that it’s going to go for more of those, you know, dramatic elements that it brings to the table.
1:14:34
And so, you know, that’s that’s probably what’s going to get at the, you know, the most the most footage of the most viewership, I should say, from, you know, from the masses.
So it makes sense.
I’ll give it a 6 1/2 out of 10.
1:14:51
It was good.
I probably don’t need to see it again.
But you know, I’m glad I glad I did watch it once just to know experience this epic movie in Americans pastime.
All right, so we hope you have a great July 4th as we are going to release this prior to that.
1:15:14
What do we get on the docket?
Anything specific in mind for for coming up here?
Did you want to of Mel Brooks movie for his Hunter birthday?
That is true.
He is celebrating 100 birthday.
Yeah.
I mean, yeah, yeah.
1:15:33
I mean something.
Wow.
No, yeah, I’m just saying I’m not sure I was saying that as in I’m not sure which one to do.
But yeah, we’ll have to do something.
Well, we’ve only done 1 so far.
That’s true.
Yeah.
We’ll do so, Yeah.
I mean, I’m almost kind of like let’s not do some of his main movies, Like let’s do something lesser known or something maybe not as popular, but we can talk about it, figure something out.
1:16:02
I.
Think I know what we should do?
What do you got?
I think we should do Robin Hood men tights.
Yeah, that is Why do you say that one in specific?
Yeah, said one that’s not like a big one.
Do you want?
Would you rather do Dracula Dead and loving it?
1:16:20
Maybe.
Yeah, maybe that one is less love than the others.
Well, so has Robin Hood been tight?
Silly, That’s true.
Yeah, I mean, we can do.
We can do something.
Like that?
No, no, no, no, no, no.
That’s OK.
That’d be fun.
Actually, let’s do.
1:16:36
Let’s do high anxiety instead.
That’s true.
I mean, that’s definitely not one of his more well known films.
So but yeah, we’ll we’ll figure something out.
But yeah, that wouldn’t that wouldn’t be a bad idea.
Mel Brooks movie like you said, we’ve only done 1 so.
1:16:57
Sue the producers.
I don’t have to do.
I can do that off of Yeah or Blazing Saddles.
All right, well, thanks for listening to our episode on What?
What?
Just like, yeah, just keep trucking up.
Yeah, just yeah.
1:17:14
Just keep going.
We’ll figure it out.
So that’s why we’re going to, that’s why we’re going to do the Italian horror film next time.
Yeah, yeah, So happy, happy 4th of July.
Thanks for listening to our episode on The Patriot.
1:17:31
I hope you enjoyed.
You know, if you have time, go and watch this three hour epic, you know.
Get it in.
We’re available on all podcasting, as you forgot to mention.
That’s true.
We’re on pretty much any podcast app you can think of, our home base at Spotify, we have our Apple Podcasts link and pretty much anything you can think of, we’re on it.
1:17:54
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1:18:13
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